To expect my child to sleep!

[Allyg1185]

Bit of history first. My 6 year ds 7 in two months has never been a good sleeper. As a new born he would be awake almost all day looking around him. As a toddler he would be up for periods during the night unsettled. As he got older I managed to go from sitting in the room with him till he fell asleep to through in my room to eventually downstairs. Then things settled down during the night and this is where we are today.

For the past year and a half he has a carry on at bedtime. We have the same routine. He gets plenty warning its coming up to bed time. Then we go upstairs brush teeth, try for the toilet, story, kiss and cuddle then I come downstairs. Then the fun begins!

Within minutes hes up at the top of the stairs with various excuses. There is many to hot, to cold, not tired, needs more water, wants jammies off etc etc this can go on for an hour. Up at least twice but can be as much as 4 or 5. Eventually he settles around 9pmish. Sorry I should have said he goes to bed around 8pm.

Once hes asleep hes only up once for a pee and goes straight back to sleep but hes up really early around 6am or just before. I tell him to go back to bed. Hes got a clock in his room and I tell him hes not allowed to come back until 7.00am. However hes through countless times telling me he is bored and not tired.

Just seems like I get one area of his sleep sorted and another problem starts.

Hes very active and is always out playing with his friends after school either bikes or trampolines or climbing trees. Attends swimmimg class one night a week and we are and outdoorsy active family at the weekends.

I should add it doesn't matter how late he goes to bed hes still up really early.

I think I've added as much information as I can.

Any help would be greatly appreciated

He isn't waking massively early though, and sounds fairly standard at that age.

In terms of going to bed, it sounds like he wants/needs interaction or attention from you. What happens if you sit in bed with him after lights out chatting quietly about the day etc for a bit? Maybe that zoning out and time together would help?

Not all kids need the same amount of sleep. Maybe a big dose of fresh air before bed, followed by a banana and warm milk and a later bedtime?

If you think the cause is a noy being sleepy issue rather than a behavioural issue could you tweak his routine a bit so he winds down a bit more before you start his actual bed time routine? For example no TV or exercise in the hour before bedtime routine starts, more quiet time, try a guided mindfulness exercise or something? May be worth a try?

What happens if you stay in his room with him at bedtime? It sounds like maybe he isn't sleepy, or is lonely?

6am is on the early side but a normal
Wake up time for many children and adults.

Your dc sleeps from 9pm - 6am? That's not too bad.
All my dc have slept differently - dc1 could never sleep until late at that age and is still the same as a teen (although it's now at least 11pm before she sleeps 😤).
Dc2 would go to sleep around 8, but always up at 5 or 6 am and also during the night. He's still like early up 🤦‍♀️ although never before 6am now.
We are more relaxed with dc3. He's the same age as yours and doesn't start getting ready for bed until 8ish and is usually awake until 9pm too.
My friend had loads of battles with her dd, but eventually just accepted she didn't need as much sleep as others.

I was a you don't have to sleep, just stay in bed parent. Mine had toys and books to play with. Didn't have to be lying down. Worked a treat. I didn't need a lot of sleep when I was young and still don't so I know what it's like to be lying in bed bored. Much better to be able do something.

Maybe I’m harsh but at that age that seems ridiculous, I’m presuming you’ve tried simply giving him a real proper roasting when he starts this carry on at bedtime? and telling him in no uncertain terms he’s not to leave his room or shout down to you unless a proper emergency. He can lie quietly in bed if he’s not sleepy but no tv,no playing and no sounds! With my DS we do the method that whether he’s tired or not it’s bedtime and our interaction for the day is done he knows to lie quietly, sometimes he plays up but he gets a warning and told to be quiet and go to sleep if he still plays up we escalate to a rollicking which usually settles him down.

Just dropping this here.

and ps: I would assume he only needs 9 hrs/night & plan accordingly. One of mine doesn't self-entertain either. Personality.

Have you seen the light clocks for children? Instead of making a child reliant on telling the time, it is a simple lights- such as blue for night time and amber for daytime and the stars count down to when you can get up. You can say every time he comes out of his room during blue time he goes down on the chart.

Also, tell him he doesn't have to sleep, but he does have to be in his bed. If he wakes up and the blue light is still on, he can get a toy or book and play in his bed.

I was always an early morning person. From about aged 4, on the weekends, my dad would leave out a small portion of cheerios (without milk) in a bowl and I would have a snack and watch cbeebies until everyone else woke up. To this day, I love early Saturday mornings, as I am up before everyone in my house and it is my time to read and have my coffee.

I agree you need to be more firm with him and start ignoring him. If he comes and wakes you up because he is bored, send him straight back to his room with 1 warning that if he does it again, he doesn't get to do X,Y, or Z activity. Then follow through.

We have the same. And exactly the same age! I had a huge thread about it a few weeks ago. He says he's scared and gets upset but it's driving me crazy. I'm starting to dread bedtime. Again doesn't try for more than a second. I've tried rapid return and I've tried reward charts. Tried talking about his worries. Just feels like he's got into a rut now.

I am in the ignore camp. Your coming to the bottom of the step and shouting up at him is what he wants. Just ignore. If he comes downstairs and tried to engage you just say that you will not speak to him and it’s time for sleep. Be boring. Ignore. Make a cup of tea and read a book. At some point the message will get through.

You might need to do this for two weeks to see a difference. I am not convinced a sticker chart will help. He’s doing it for attention and all of these are ways of further drawing attention to the issue. Just make your ‘go to bed I am bored’ face and ignore him.

Just to add I no longer think he really is scared it's just become a habit.

I don’t think reward charts will help because they are a novelty for a bit. But boring Mummy who simply doesn’t engage. That’s much harder to crack. He gets nothing out of it. And at some point he has to go to bed.

Keep your expectations clear. Between 8 pm and 7 am he is not to bother you. He can go to the toilet a thousand times and change his PJs as much as he likes. You don’t need to know about it. And you will not do anything about it.

Can you just go to sleep if you don't feel ready for sleep?

No but you can lie quietly in your room and do colouring/puzzles/read a book. And it’s a good life long habit to get into.

I'm afraid a friend had a similar situation with her then just School aged DD. Went all the way to paediatrician who said, I'm afraid, this is in the realms of normal.

She still goes through phases of this at age 8; two nights ago she didn't manage to go to sleep till midnight and was up at 7. Just seems to be unable to switch off sometimes no matter what they do.

I will say that a CD player and many interesting story cds helped our ds who struggled to go to sleep alone.

My ds does also go through phases like this, esp this time of year when the light starts increasing. Cds and being allowed to play in his room till he feels like sleeping seems to be the only thing that helps him wind down.

I have heard of parents whose children were low in iron finding their children's sleep improved when they started supplementing.

I read that sometimes writing things down is really effective. So, problem solve together on a bit of paper.

‘I need you to go to bed and stay there, let’s think what we can do’
Write down suggestions, don’t leave anything off at this stage. So for e.g. you might suggest a sports bottle of water always by the bed, he might suggest going to bed at 10pm! Then you work down the list together crossing off any that are total vetos. Then you hopefully have something to work with that he has had some input in. This might involve a small compromise like bed at 8.15 instead of 8, or 8.30 at weekends? Something like that. I think the idea is that it gives them some control so it’s not just a battle and also it might throw up an issue you didn’t know about?
A suggestion for early mornings was a sign on your bedroom door ‘STOP no entry until 7am’ something like that. Then again you could problem solve ways to entertain himself if he wakes up earlier.

Just a different idea.. it was from an Adele Faber book.

The story cd thing can be exciting at first but it wears off. I just had to go with it. Firmly put foot down about putting it on at night recently. But we began the cds when he was about 3.

Christianne Kerr's night time meditation stories (I heard about here) are really good for winding down to. I would actually stay with him and listen with him, modelling how to just relax.

Audible on a phone/ tablet/ iPad is good; I put it on my phone and was in charge of what he listened to then took it away when asleep.

Free Winnie the Pooh was listened to for about 2 years and worked like magic.

I don't think getting up at 6 is that bad?
if he's settled by 9 and then sleeps till 6 and only gets up to pee, I think you need to accept that.
I can see the bit before he settles sounds annoying but I don't have kids that go straight to bed without a fuss either

Sounds just like my son. Gets into bed around 8pm but not asleep until 8.30/9pm. Then up at 6.30/7am.

Seems normal as long as he's sleeping through those hours other than getting up for the toilet?

He is sleeping!!!!! He goes to sleep at 9 and wakes at 6!!!!!

Try sending him up to bed at 7:30 and he can read in bed until he falls asleep.
And he is old enough to play or read in the morning until 7am.

I used to be like this and still am to an extent, I just don't sleep.
I used to read in bed until I fell asleep and I don't think my parents ever knew!

I'm aware that he's sleeping. I maybe worded the title badly I just want him to settle in the evening without the carry on and not wake the whole house early. It may not be early for everyone or the norm for some households but its early for us and would prefer 7am

Have you tried a later bed time?