To Think That If Hiliary Clinton Had Been President.....

[A4710Rider]

......we now wouldn't be looking at all out peace on the Korean Peninsula.

Very well done, Mr Trump, very well done indeed.

@AmericanEskimoDoge that is certainly true of some people, but nowhere close to the majority. Obama was frequently roundly criticised by those on the left who had supported him for not doing enough to make reforms in the US with regards to schooling, healthcare, inequality and minority rights. As for foreign policy he was frequently criticised for being inexperienced and timid (criticisms which were often valid).

He was a much more conservative and mainstream president than the hype had led many to believe, and many of his former supporters were his most vocal and disappointed critics.

It's an American led sanctions campaign that China are on board with, and Trump does deserve some credit, even Mr Moon agrees FFS!

I agree with @AmericanEskimoDoge that for many that are quick to criticise Trump would have no worries praising Obama if he was still in office

Some credit - yes (or at least those with the power behind the throne)

All the credit - nope

even Mr Moon agrees FFS!

Does he? Interesting.

@Justanotherlurker that simply isn't true. The US has been sanctioning NK fot ten years to no effect because china accounts for 90% of NK's international trade.

China is now giving effect to UN sanctions and the impact on NK has been devastating. That is the reason NK's approach has become more conciliatory.

The US is obviously a huge player in the UN and nobody is disputing that the US has played a role in China and NK reaching this point. But Trump isn't doing anything differently to what his predecessors had been doing for years. In other words - it isn't Trump who has made the difference.

The US is obviously a huge player in the UN and nobody is disputing that the US has played a role in China and NK reaching this point. But Trump isn't doing anything differently to what his predecessors had been doing for years. In other words - it isn't Trump who has made the difference.

In the same vain, I will forever find it galling that the German Chancellor Helmut Kohl will go down in history as the 'Reunification Chancellor' when largely he was simply in the right place (or office) at the right time.

All the credit - nope~

I agree, not all, definitely not, plus a stopped clock and all that, but he has done more than previous administrations.

Other factors have played a part of course, but it is true that same people who pick apart at any implication of Trump being a part of something good would not do so if it was there favoured choice of leader.

It happens just the same in the UK as well.

A4710Rider

Myother,

Look, you're obviously a front row student at the Guardian School of Political Awareness but you must be able to understand the impact of Trump declaring, outright, that he wanted to meet Kim and all the international validation it would have given the latter? That's just one very small example.

But yeah, let's stay in our lefty facebook feed bubble and put our fingers in our ears and shout lallalalalalala

Why being so aggressive?
Cant you just give your opinion and disagree in a civilised manner?

Hillary Clinton would have been a disaster. She's nuts IMHO.

The US is obviously a huge player in the UN and nobody is disputing that the US has played a role in China and NK reaching this point. But Trump isn't doing anything differently to what his predecessors had been doing for years. In other words - it isn't Trump who has made the difference.

You still are trying to downplay the US and Trump involvement in this.

Again, when the SK president is specifically mentioning Trump maybe you should not pretend to know the ins and outs of Geopolitics..

mobile.nytimes.com/2018/01/10/world/asia/moon-jae-in-trump-north-korea.html

YANBU. But I suspect most are incapable of giving credit where it is due.

^ This.

There are so many nuances in politics and rarely is someone 100 per cent good/bad.

Things seem rather tribal, polarised and absolutist at the moment, with people reluctant to say they agree with even just one aspect of a party/politician/movement they are "supposed" to strongly dislike.

It has also got more personal, with some who won't even make friends with someone who doesn't vote the way they do or agree with them on every single thing.

@Justanotherlurker Strange accusation. We're all here expressing our opinions, I don't see any difference between your actions and mine.

It is unsurprising that South Korea is crediting Trump when it is very much in SK's interests to have a positive and robust relationship with the US. It is also strategically sensible to draw attention to a powerful apparent ally in the early stages of this fragile process. Just like NK has always heavily relied on having China lurking behind them, SK is showcasing the positive relationship with the US in the same way.

It is naive to look only at what leaders say in diplomatic statements and not to consider the actions that lead to real change. International relations doesn't take place on twitter or in press statements.

I don't like Trump but he has done a great job with North Korea. He has been back and forth with China since he won the election. He put tariffs in place and showed tack for once by saying 'We have lost the trade war.' This allowed him to save face. The Chinese retaliation was weak and for show. America accepted the higher tariffs imposed on their exports.

I hate the tax bill and I would like something better to happen in education. It was in the news yesterday that the minimum payment for housing is increasing from $50 to $150 a month for those with no income and the rent paid by those who do work is changing to 35% of income with less expenses, such as childcare, education and commuting costs, deducted from income. This worries me a lot. If someone is living in section 8 housing they shouldn't be better off trying to better themselves through education and/or work.

Op - it should never have been Hilary anyway. All the investigations into Trump have revealed is that Bernie should have won the democrat primary and I think he would have won the election against Trump. The DNC have no one to blame but themselves.

Trump is functionally illiterate, ignorant of world affairs, cannot give a coherent speech and you think he had anything to do with this?

MyotherUsernameisaPun isn't in a lefty bubble, s/he is right.

A4710Rider so what exactly what his part in it then? You haven't a clue have you or you'd have answered by now. Pathetic. Nearly as pathetic as him.

It is naive to look only at what leaders say in diplomatic statements and not to consider the actions that lead to real change. International relations doesn't take place on twitter or in press statements.

Exactly, they do not, but Trump has played a key role in bringing forward the talks, not all, and it is not because of the US role within the EU.

OP you've lost me for being unable to counter an intelligent comment by @myother and instead rambling on like, well, Donald Trump on twitter.

as much as I dislike Trump, I think she would have been a far far worse president than him.

I believe, insofar as Trump may have been influential in bringing about these hopeful negotiations, it was the effect of his inflammatory tweets putting the fear of God into more sensible leaders that led them to think "Quick, let's talk before those two dangerous lunatics actually start pressing buttons!". And then someone on the US side managed to persuade the orange one that jumping on the peace bandwagon would be fantastic PR. Whoever that was should get the Nobel prize tbh, but of course never will. So the initiative will have US endorsement and that's great - but the US didn't actually do it.

China as a nation doesn't say a lot about international relations. Whatever they do they tend to do it quietly. I think they'd be happy enough to let someone else take the credit in the US and European media as long as the desired result takes place. They are also smart enough to have worked out that letting Trump play the Big Man gives the best hope of continued US support (or at worst, absence of derailment).

As far as Obama goes, I agree that giving him the Peace Prize was ludicrous as he hadn't actually done anything at that point in time other than get elected, though that's hardly his fault; and when he was in office he had far too little support for his initiatives to actually see many of them through, most notably against an actively hostile Republican majority in the second term. As for Hillary Clinton dragging the world into nuclear war - no. No, she would not have. From my distant perspective I'm quite willing to believe she's another slimy career politician who had her fingers in somebody else's pies - there's a lot of it about - but this "we'd be in nuclear winter by now if she was in charge," just no. Even if she were as horrible as she's portrayed, which would be hard for the Devil himself, she's at least realistic enough not to risk incinerating the pies and her fingers along with them, not to mention her own family and everything else.

They are also smart enough to have worked out that letting Trump play the Big Man gives the best hope of continued US support

The fact that Trump and Xi Jinping met to discuss trade restrictions and North Korea, is not Trump jumping on the peace bandwagon.

NK suddenly having Nukes have pushed everyone along, but when North Korea and Japan although being allies of the US are crediting Trump sometimes it's best to just acknowledge and let the partisan politics go.

True OP. Hilary would have caused WW3 by now. Evil woman.

Not rtt but totally agree op

Trump is not fit to be president of anything. His knowledge of economics and world affairs is appalling. He appears to be very poorly educated and doesn’t get the big picture. The rate he is getting through advisors and staff tells a lot.

Yes it pains me but I have to agree op.

Sometimes things do get into a rut and stalemate.

Now who knows how this will pan out - it may all be a ruse, I dont trust NK at all. Or the Kims.

But Trump has been tough, irrational - un predictable just like....KIM himself and Trump has definatly got a big win here without a doubt.

The pressure he has put on China - etc etc etc. As we see with normal micro family relationships - people being polite - diplomatic - not saying what they feel....does often only allow un reasonable people to carry on being un reasonable. Sometimes you need something out of the ordinary to break that pattern and I feel Trump, has done it.

Lets hope so - for Nk is the forgotten land, the largest prison camp on earth, the forgotten starved - tortured brain washed people...lets bloody hope so for them.