In laws who issue instructions about everything

[Listenlisten]

DH and I are in our late 20s, he is an only child after having an older brother who passed away a decade ago. I say this for context because it may be that they've become very attached to DH, and by extension, me. His parents are well-meaning people BUT they are extremely instructive about the smallest details to the point where I find it difficult to be in their company for extended periods of time. I have really never seen anything like it. Some examples include if we're eating dinner they will tell us when to go wash our hands, if we're out at a family barbeque my MIL will tell DH to stay out of the sun and when to put on a jacket, FIL has sent me messages to tell me to take an umbrella if he sees it's raining, if we're around other people my MIL will 'prompt' me to greet them as if I don't know that I should be saying hello to them and she will even adjust my plate while I'm eating if she doesn't think it's sitting at the right angle. They also don't have a filter at all or much of a sense of personal space e.g my MIL will point out if I have a pimple, she's fiddled with my necklace if it's skewed etc.

I've asked DH how he's lived with it and he says he just tunes a lot of it out and picks his battles, but I find it so stressful and irritating. They are from a culture where the style of parenting is fairly authoritarian but even so, it's very difficult to deal with. I try and just brush each thing off as it comes but before I know it, the next instruction is being issued

How on earth do you deal with people like this without losing your sanity? They genuinely don't seem to think there is anything odd about their behaviour and think that they are being caring. We have lived abroad and in different cities but it's always the same when we come back.

I'm astounded at the poster who suggested you tell your (well meaning) in laws to fuck off, block them on your phone and walk out if their house when they are hosting you.

Jeeeez.

I would jokingly and fondly point out that they are overstepping the mark for e.g 'thanks for pointing out my pimple I was trying to enjoy my day!' or 'I've already packed an umbrella, I am in my 20's now and well aware how British weather can be!' Or 'you don't need to tell me, thanks, I'm an adult' all with a friendly tone (passive aggressive maybe? But not too confrontational)
Or if she moves your plate just head tilt and smile 'what are you doing?'

KeneftYakimoski you are demonstrating the very definition of emotional unintelligence, but whether you genuinely are or are just trying for your own daft reasons to be a GF, is information only you are privy to.

The irony of what keneft is suggesting is that it would essentially be stropping off like a moody teen, which is unlikely to convince them that you're a fully capable and mature adult.

Here's an idea. Wild but let's see....
Could you just tell them that while you appreciate they do it out of love, it really hurts your feelings when they do x,y,z and can they please stop. Sometimes the simple solution is the best. I bet they don't realise they're doing it half the time.

A lot of different perspectives on the situation! It does need careful handling because of the circumstances I mentioned previously and I don't want to upset them but I also don't want to just concede because it's the easiest thing to do and it seems small. E.g often I eat a lot more than I'm able to or comfortable with simply because they keep asking me to eat more and can get hurt if I don't try all the things they've cooked.

In terms of whether they interfere with big things, yes and no. The main thing is that they keep pushing the idea of us all living together - to be fair this is fairly common in their culture but as with the small instructions it is very difficult to discuss rationally and calmly as it can quite quickly become emotive. I suppose it can all be read in 2 ways and probably is a bit of both: they care about us a lot and are overprotective, or they think they always know best and don't really care about what we think.

I liked a pp's advice about having a mantra or catchphrase to respond with when they issue instructions but it's all so tricky

Also I'm not sure how mentioning their son's suicide would help in any way...if that was a joke it's not in great taste.

DH tends to ignore most of it then blow up occasionally which I don't think is the best approach. But I understand why as it can get frustrating very quickly.

He's grown up with them and their behaviour and just gets on with it / filters them out - highly unlikely they will change so I guess you just need to be less bothered by them and filter them out too

Can you 'kill the comments with kindness' by putting being extra-polite but hamming it up a bit? So really emphasising that 'that was sooo delicious, I enjoyed every mouthful, so I really am just perfectly satisfied now, thank you so much'. It's entering into a dance with them but one that might allow you to out-maneouver them, as well as giving them pleasant attention.

The mantra approach is probably the best, "Don't worry MIL, I'm a big grown up, able to know when my hands need washing." "Don't worry FIL, I'm 28 (or whatever you are!), I'm old enough to know if I need to take a brolly." when MIL moves your plates do a stage whisper to MIL "did you forget I'm a grown up again? You don't need to look after me."

Pull them up on it - gently! - every single time. Make a joke of it. You might need to risk embarrassing PIL if they do it in public, but remember they haven't considered if they are embarrassing you, so you don't need to worry too much about that.

oh on the over eating "I know when I'm full, thank you."

Just be polite but firm. It'll take time, eventually they'll stop.

The main thing is that they keep pushing the idea of us all living together

Ah, so it's not just that they want to organise your life some of the time? They want to be controlling 24x7. And people say I'm over-reacting.

There are some really uncaring bits of advice on this thread!

OP you have to harness the fact that they care about you to enable you to actually talk to them about this in a non ck frontatoomal way! I can’t believ no .edu has suggested that you actually sit them down and say what you find difficult! It doesn’t have to be a ‘blame’ conversation. It could be light hearted, especially if you can reassure them - maybe tell them that you’ll let hem know in future in case they forget - try and laugh about it. Maybe you could talk to them about how it was when they were your age, how did they feel and so on?

It sounds to me like they need some impartial councelling about their loss though, and that’s hard to get people to see sometimes.

keneft you literally said she should cut them off because they tell her to bring an umbrella and move her plate a bit.

That is, frankly, fucking mental advice.

From the OP:

I find it so stressful and irritating. They are from a culture where the style of parenting is fairly authoritarian but even so, it's very difficult to deal with. I try and just brush each thing off as it comes but before I know it, the next instruction is being issued

So people should put with with stuff they find stressful and irritating and difficult to deal with, because the people who are choosing to be stressful and irritating and difficult are more important.

She and the DH have "blown up" at the PILs, and they haven't got the message. If your advice is that adults should put up with stress, irritation and so on in order to protect the fee-fees of people with no boundaries, and to cap it all people with no boundaries who want to come and live with the OP, then fine: be trampled on.

If someone said their partner was difficult, irritating and stressing, the advice would not be "suck it up, he can't help it, imagine how he feels". It would be a great deal more, er, robust.

Stressful, irritating and difficult people who won't be told: why have them in your life?

You have an advantage over your DH listen. You are an incomer.

In my experience, I think the best long term outcome is that they know not to do this stuff to you; they whinge about how weird and difficult you are behind your back; they regularly use the phrase "don't do that, you know what listen is like" accompanied by an eyeroll; they are nice as pie to your face.

To get to that end state you will have to go through a rocky phase where you move your plate back, gently push a hand away, make daft jokes like a PPs about having been kidnapped, slightly tetchily saying "I am a grown woman you know. I think I can work it out for myself."

If they get upset, you must get upset too instead of smoothing it over "I can't bear to be touched without permission, it makes me so upset. It's just the way I am." Or "I can't bear to have my things moved, it makes me so upset." Or "It upsets me to feel like I am being treated like a idiot child. I have worked so hard to be taken seriously as a professional adult woman it makes me feel horrible inside if I feel I'm being underestimated."

There will be growing pains. Keep your eye on the prize: them respecting your boundaries because they understand the ways in which you are nuts (in their opinion).

I suppose it can all be read in 2 ways and probably is a bit of both: they care about us a lot and are overprotective, or they think they always know best and don't really care about what we think

You need to agree your boundaries with DH and stick to them consistently - the broken record routine.

For major life change stuff or things which really bug you take a consistent line on 'no thankyou' without additional discussion.

Over protective nonsense like asking if you have been to the loo or even tidying something can be laughed at. I know I do stuff like this, I accept my kids mockery as a result.

However to get to that point you may need to be more forceful and blunt in pushing back on the other stuff so that you feel its more on your terms.

So people should put with with stuff they find stressful and irritating and difficult to deal with, because the people who are choosing to be stressful and irritating and difficult are more important

No, but when you're marrying into a different culture, you have to understand that the culture is, indeed, different.

As I said upthread, my PIL are from, I assume, a very similar culture. In the beginning, I also got pissy about it and sulked about being treated like a child. But then I wised the fuck up and realised that not everything in the whole wide world is about me and my culture and everything being always what is good for me. I can protect my own sense of self while also allowing them to do what feels right for them.

It would be unthinkable for my PIL to not check in every day and to make sure that I was ok. It would be bordering on neglect for them. That is part of their culture. It feels over-bearing to me, but the alternative is that I ignore them. Then they're the ones feeling bad instead, like I am cold and distant and pushing them away.

The only solution is to meet half-way. That is the only possible solution in ALL multicultural relationships. You can't just say 'my way or the high way'. That's bullshit. If you want everything your way, you have to marry into your own culture. If you marry into a different culture, you have to be prepared for compromise at every step.

That is not the same as being a pushover. It's about realising expectations, discussing them and managing them.

My MIL knows that if she interferes with stuff with the kids, I will tell her to back off (nicely). But I have learned to accept that she will always ask me if I have an umbrella, that she will make sure I ate breakfast, that she will fill my fridge with food. I have boundaries. But I also don't need to have never-ending strife with my in-laws because I'm so inflexible that I can only see my western way of thinking as being 'the right way'.

No, but when you're marrying into a different culture, you have to understand that the culture is, indeed, different.

But that cuts both ways: the OP's husband has also married into another culture, that of the OP. It's a symmetrical thing: if the husband wants his wife to defer unquestioningly to his parents, then he isn't going to get that while also marrying a western woman. The OP's in-laws are sentient adults, and capable of self-reflection and change. Just saying "it's culture" (and I don't believe that pushing other people's plates around is acceptable in many cultures, actually) is besides the point. If they want a relationship with the OP, they need to - as you say elsewhere - at least meet halfway. They aren't even meeting a tenth of the way: they are just doing what the hell they like, and getting upset when they don't get their own way.

Keneft, I can kind of see where you are coming from, I really can. But in this instance the OP actually seems quite fond of her inlaws and doesn't think they are bad people.

Your advice is suitable for people with really toxic inlaws who need to hear something other than the standard 'oh but its his MUM!' responses that people get in RL.

OP's inlaw's behaviour sounds dysfunctional and like it needs to be challenged, yes, but its not like the OP is being emotionally abused here.

If they want a relationship with the OP, they need to - as you say elsewhere - at least meet halfway.

And how do you think telling them to fuck off and blocking their texts will encourage this? This thread has been full of people suggesting ways that OP could try and gently and kindly change their behaviour, not just accept it. You're the one who is completely opposed to compromise.

Obviously not on the extreme you have experienced OP but my dad does this with anything to do with money/expensive belongings. He can't help himself and tbf because of the relationship we have I just take the piss out of him or preempt that he is going to say and het in there before he does.

Dad: oh is that a new phone.
Me: yes dad.. I was thinking about letting it fall out of my pocket and smash - what do you reckon?

Dad: make sure you put that money safely in your bag.
Me: no way dad, why didn't I think about that.

On a slightly more serious note I put up thos crap from my MIL for a while until I had a child. She got way worse after he was born.. let's just say one day I left.. and 27 yrs later, I've never been back (and told her why).

Thelcon- What a horrible thing to suggest! Unlike a pp, I DON'T get where you're coming from and I think that is an incredibly hateful idea!!

What if someone has a real phobia of germs? Someone touching their plate would mean they needed a whole new plate of food. I'd find it hard not to freak out at the invasion of my personal space.

In terms of whether they interfere with big things, yes and no. The main thing is that they keep pushing the idea of us all living together - to be fair this is fairly common in their culture but as with the small instructions it is very difficult to discuss rationally and calmly as it can quite quickly become emotive.

It's really easy to deal with this one. Just say NO.

keneft I'm not sure if you're just not reading my posts or if you're not very good at inferring things, but as I said, my MIL does meet me halfway by not interfering with things that are actually important to me eg kids, my relationship and so on.

Yes indeed, it cuts both ways, but in some cultures, that's not that easy to understand because filial piety is an important part of that culture and the younger generation just do as the older generation says. While I try to understand that, obviously it's not always that easy, and it's not easy for them either. But we all try and it mostly works out.

"and I don't believe that pushing other people's plates around is acceptable in many cultures, actually" - massive LOL, I can see you've never had an East Asian MIL.