To think people are treated differently because of their names

[Springhun]

I’ve always hated my surname. It sounds weird and some people’s even find it funny. Because of this I’ve always felt embarrassed about it.

I have been treated badly by teachers in the past, as well as people at work, despite me being perfectly nice and hardworking. It sounds bizarre, but sometimes I wonder if it’s my name. A name is a part of a person’s identity, and my name doesn’t sound nice at all.

This probably sounds crazy, but years ago I remember hearing about a study, where teachers were asked to mark essays from different pupils. One essay was submitted twice with different names, and one scored higher despite them being the same work. It’s stuck with me and made me think our names do define us and affect how we’re treated.

KC225 that seems to be true, I posted in baby names a few days ago about a (traditional Scottish/English, not weird) name I'd love to use for a future baby. The majority of comments were negative - but most of them saying that they knew someone with that name or several people with that name who were unpleasant. Fwiw I still want to use it but I'd now be slightly wary in case people associated my hypothetical daughter with horrible people because of her name.

@trueblueari Of course it's true. If a name reminded you of someone who you didn't like for some reason you wouldn't call your child by that name even if it was a perfectly normal run of the mill name.

@number1wang with all due respect, your post is complete and utter bollocks. With all of your insight, do you a) believe that you are the only one of ethnic minority on this thread or on MN, b) are the spokesperson for All people of colour? You could be of any ethnic UK minority, it doesn't mean that you have a direct link to slavery, c) not seem to have fully understood what you have admitted to? You played the name game, no ethnic name for you then, a name that would please the interviewer and get that oxbridge interview. Essentially who cares? If they can or can't do the job will be the essence of your efforts.

Totally agree.

I HATE my second name. I avoid saying it at all costs.

@peacheachpearplum your post about having a rich slave owning ancestor seems gloaty. Imagine if you were a person of colour, specifically black, who has heritage from a country whose society was based around the slave trade, how would you read your post? That their surname is cheapened by the fact that they are descended from slaves and they cheapen the name due to their own colour??

Well he wasn't my ancestor, I took my husband's name when we married. Maybe you missed the bit about the GGGrandmother being a slave? So her child was given the plantation owner's surname ie his father. Can't you see how odd it is to talk about a name being posh when this name has come to us from the child of a rich plantation owner and a slave? Is it posh or isn't it? In fact a surname isn't posh is it, it is just a name. So my brown husband and my children know they have this heritage as do many people in countries where slavery was common, in fact people often had their owners name even if there was no family relationship.

As for being gloaty well no, due to how records have been kept it is clear it was not a love relationship (which did happen) and the likelihood is that she was raped so we see no glory in our connection to him but definitely respect the woman who managed to bring up a child born in slavery who became a free man with a successful business. She was probably a remarkable woman. We don't even know her name.

Oh God, @peacheachpearplum, I agree with @teaaddict235 , PLEASE ask mumsnet to delete your post. (7-8 posts up, where you talk about your ancestors being better than certain other people who were forced to work for them!) The post is bloody AWFUL

Can people on here not read? I was quite clear in that post, which has been deleted for some bizarre reason, that my family are descended from the slave owner and one of his slaves, I was asking how you decide if names are posh when we have the surname of someone rich but got it by way of a slave who wouldn't have been posh would she?

I never said he was better than her, but he would certainly have been considered posher than her as he lived in a fancy plantation house and she would have lived in a shack. My husband and children are more proud of her than him.

I am so upset about how two of you have twisted what I said. I'm going to delete my account. I know people twist things on here all the time but you two take the biscuit, you are either semi literate or very nasty people.

I had a shitty name and sticking out ears. I got rid of both as soon as I could afford it.

Kelninnock - well you would be able to afford it as you sound like The Prince of Wales

"See i never think of double barrelled surnames as being posh. But I do assume parents aren't married and they have mum and dads surnames. Wouldn't make me treat them any differently to anyone else though." That may be a generational difference. For people I'd say 40 and over? I think it is still a "new" thing for parents to be unmarried and to give the children both their names. Nothing against it but just I think for older people double-barrelling was when nobility inter-married to continue the line of the name.

Awwlook similarly - bet I can guess roughly when you were born... My sister has the same name (different spelling) thanks to my adoration of a certain song at the time. She also hates it (due in no small part to the fact there were bloody hundreds of Clare's named around the same time)

I have a scots name but I wasn't raised in Scotland. Until quite recently I was frequently told I was spelling AND pronouncing MY OWN name wrong. Due to a certain young scots politician it's now much better known, but not sure I'm keen on the association.

2 friends of mine are white British with names that are seen as "ethnic" they do firmly believe (and I don't doubt them) that it has impeded them career wise. Another friend who IS a woman of colour has a VERY English name (think along lines of Sophie smythe) and has then experienced barely concealed racist reactions when she turns up for job interviews etc.

Several friends have what would now be called "chavvy" names (but that's not what they were called in 70's/80's) and they are perceived as lower class until people meet them (they're all quite posh)

It definitely makes a difference.

Frankly I wonder if it would be better if recruiters only knew your NI number and address/email initially - might reduce SOME of the prejudice. (And yes I know and agree it would be better if people stopped being prejudiced arses!)

Holiday101 anglicising names has happened a LOT in history. Lots of Jews, Irish, Italians etc have done so when they've moved to England or USA or Canada. It then "becomes" their name. See it a lot with old Hollywood actors who had barely pronounceable Jewish/German names (eg alan Alda, Charles bronson, kirk Douglas, Tony Curtis, Winona Ryder, gene wilder, Fred Astaire - exception - whoopi Goldberg who adopted a Jewish name to gain success hopefully). Friends did a storyline on it with Joey. Glad to hear your friend got some justice.

Even very subtle differences - my mothers maiden name is Irish but not obviously so to those without prejudice - but to certain employers in late 60's/early 70's glasgow - they knew!

"know several teachers who say that if a child has a certain type of name, that they will probably be a handful, and come from a dysfunctional family, with lots of siblings with different surnames. Whether it's right or wrong to say this, there is something in it." Are those same teachers aware of the fact that how they treat these children (based on their prejudices) is also a factor?

Margaretcavendish your post about names not pronounced how they look reminded me about urquhart - there was a character in a tv show called this and I had terrible trouble pronouncing it when I saw it. To then be told it was scots - well my dad can be a bit deadpan/windup humour wise so I didn't believe him. A teacher had to convince me - let's face it it's not McDonald or Stuart is it?

I had an old lady first name and foreign surname. It was not good.

In the little town I grew up in I couldn't get work experience or a Saturday job until I created a crap but English sounding nickname.

My teen Saturday job told me point blank they would not be calling me by first name. My first full time job told me my name wouldn't work for them (!)

I then changed my first name as a teenager but coupled with my foreign surname I frequently got "we though you'd be black" to which I used to answer SORRY

now making bookings etc I use a similar but British name. Wish I'd thought very carefully with the name change.

Now live in rural wales and in general ppl are funny about my name. I'm unmarried but the children have my foreign surname and my (common law) husbands simple welsh surname.

I've seen the reaction to the children's foreign bit of name. Tiny village playgroup registration with one worker saying to another WHATS THIS? Re name on form, I'm not saying this etc

My 6yr old DD took part in a local speech competition thing and the judge told her she "didn't have time" for DD surname (!) so would just refer to her as welsh part of surname and was just off with her from the word go.

When I get married I will double barrel to be like the children but in all honesty will just use the welsh part for an easy life

I really don't like my name but, to be fair, it is completely fitting for my "class"/job/social role/parents. I am a walking stereotype. I would have preferred to have been a Karen or a Helen - not that they are any less of my class etc., I just preferred them. I cannot abide the name Sandra and recall not being very welcoming at all (I was normally a nice child) to a new child called Sandra at school, because that was a name flung at my father by my mother in an accusatory tone! Fortunately, in NZ where we are now, there are a really wide range of names - Maori and Pasifika and European (and fewer obviously Chinese as this group seems to, sadly, adopt a "school name" or European origin) - and great effort and respect is afforded to the importance of being able to pronounce a name correctly. So I think less issues here than in the "old world". Here there are many Tyrones and Jevorns and Isaiahs from all ethnic groups who will be treated quite properly as lawyers and apprentices.

My maiden name was charming and sweet and I miss it, my married name is dreadful.

Our DS always said he was going to change his name to my maiden name, but he grew out of it.

MrsDilber If your husbands name is that bad why didn't you just keep your name?