To think people are treated differently because of their names

[Springhun]

I’ve always hated my surname. It sounds weird and some people’s even find it funny. Because of this I’ve always felt embarrassed about it.

I have been treated badly by teachers in the past, as well as people at work, despite me being perfectly nice and hardworking. It sounds bizarre, but sometimes I wonder if it’s my name. A name is a part of a person’s identity, and my name doesn’t sound nice at all.

This probably sounds crazy, but years ago I remember hearing about a study, where teachers were asked to mark essays from different pupils. One essay was submitted twice with different names, and one scored higher despite them being the same work. It’s stuck with me and made me think our names do define us and affect how we’re treated.

I have a name that is a foreign spelling of a name where the anglicised version is so much more common in the south-east of England (where I grew up and live) that people frequently haven't heard of my version, and mispronounce it. They also quite often, when corrected on the mispronounciation, think that it's a 'unique' spelling, ie that my parents made it up. On the other hand, the anglicised spelling is considered very un-middle-class. I'm a very RP and very middle class woman in my 30s in a professional job, and it's amazing how often people are openly surprised that I have either a 'chavvy' or a made-up (and so also a bit declasse) name, and how much nicer to me they are when they ask me about it, I explain it's not English - which seems to be a much more acceptable explanation - and so they can make sense of me and the name. It's ridiculous.

Yep agree my friend and sister senior teachers and dread kids with certain names as generally their parents will b nightmares.

I would judge the parents of a Chardonnay or in my day a Tracey and it isn’t right but it’s human nature.

All my children have traditional names.

I've never heard of a "post" surname. What a weird concept.

The only people I know with surnames are a man I worked with who was a snob and creep and changed his name, presumably he thought it fitted his image little did he know that his image at work was that he was an idiot, and kids whose parents aren't married. I don't know any married couples who have double barrelled their names.

Thinking about it I did know someone who had a double barrelled name, it was when I was at school at the name had been her family name for generations. She died very young which was sad.

posh not post

No. When people have double-barrelled surnames, it's usually when their parents are actually married. Never known a child have a double barrelled surname when the parents AREN'T married. A child of an unmarried couple almost always has the man's surname.

I've noticed this too (and am part of it, as a married woman who will be double-barrelling our names for our currently in utero child). It makes sense, because married women who keep their names tend to be actively invested in their names in a way that only a minority of unmarried women will be, but I am still shocked at how many women give their children the name of a man who is sometimes quite tenuously in their life, rather than their own.

Experiences has definitely affected my judgement of people. I hate the name "emma" having been extremely bullied in 2 different times of my life by females named Emma.
Thanks to an extremely emtionally and sexually abusive ex, i will avoid males named Lee. I couldn't be friends let alone date another one. I know they're not the same person, but having my mind make associations to them brings up bad memories, and i cant bring myself to type the name usually let alone say it out loud.

I had my dad's surname and then my mum changed it after they divorced to be double barreled with her maiden name. I wasn't treated any differently and I hated having a double barreled surname, it was too long and found it an absolute pain. Wouldn't give my DS one.

People definitely do get judged for their names though, especially so called "chavvy" names. I don't know what a posh surname would be though!

I don't know what a posh surname would be though!

So if you met someone called 'Fotherington-Smythe' that really wouldn't carry any associations for you? Then there's that category of posh surnames that aren't said how they're spelt - Fetherstonhaugh, St John, etc.

I think the saddest thing about this is when people take a perfectly classic name and bastardise it to make it different and thus introduce this prejudice.
Both my kids have names that are from ancient english and yet their traditional male names have been feminised by the exchange of certain letters for their alternative. Think Shane and chayn (not their name!) One lady I know cannot spell very well but chose a name with an awkward double vowel. She got it the wrong way around when registering her dc and now he has it for life.

All it would mean to me is that their family is called Fotherington-Smythe.

I'm laughing at everyone thinking double barrelled names are posh.
My surname is double barrelled and both names are foreign and impossible to pronounce properly for most people in the UK (not my name, but think Richter-Kuczkowska).
Is this because I'm posh? Is it hell.
It's because I was given my dad's surname at birth, but then my mum started changing things like school into her name, then somehow managed to get me a passport in her surname even though my birth certificate had my dad's. It was a mess. When I got older I decided to change everything to one surname - but if I used my mum's surname, my dad and his side of the family went mad, and if I used my dad's, my mum's side of the family were going to disown me.
I had no idea what to change it to other than that (how do you choose a surname with no family connections?!) so I chose to double-barrel them, which pisses everyone off, but at least it's not showing favouritism.

I was told by an acquaintance that I’m the only x name she has ever met who isn’t a “thick chav”. I suppose it was meant as a compliment of sorts given where she considers her social standing to be.

You can easily make a rough guess at my age because of my name because it’s considered a bit dated now. It hadn’t previously occurred to me before that comment that my name was perceived as “low class” before that comment though.

I use my husband’s surname for some freelance work - he has a very obviously Korean surname. (I am white with a British surname.)

I get treated very obviously differently when people are expecting me to be Asian and not white, and I get turned down for a lot of roles that require me to speak English fluently, even without getting an interview.

@peacheachpearplum your post about having a rich slave owning ancestor seems gloaty. Imagine if you were a person of colour, specifically black, who has heritage from a country whose society was based around the slave trade, how would you read your post? That their surname is cheapened by the fact that they are descended from slaves and they cheapen the name due to their own colour??

It's human nature to judge, but rejecting CVs due to preconceptions about the name is just as bad as rejecting them on skin colour or sex. I'm surprised people (on here and in RL) admit to it.

Oh God, @peacheachpearplum, I agree with @teaaddict235 , PLEASE ask mumsnet to delete your post. (7-8 posts up, where you talk about your ancestors being better than certain other people who were forced to work for them!) The post is bloody AWFUL.

How did you think it was OK to post that? SERIOUSLY.

@mandieleeinatree I guess it comes down to who you know in most cases. i genuinely know a number of children/young adults who have both mum and dads surname, whereas I only know one couple who are married with a double barrelled surname. I always wonder what would happen if 2 people with a double barrelled surname had children. How would they decide what combination to give them.

Same goes for the comments from teachers about types of names. Presumably they are talking from personal experience.

I'm sure there's an entire chapter in Freakonomics about people being treated differently because of their name and it's economic impact.

Yes - it's Chapter 6: Perfect Parenting, Part II; or Would a Roshanda by any other name smell as sweet? It's very eye-opening and makes essential reading for anyone naming their DC. Because while you can rail against this sort of thing, it happens, so you need to be aware of it.

OP, unless you name the study, we have no way of knowing whether the names were Knobby Cuntfuck (exaggerated) or Mira Patel: the former is a weird nam- based study, the latter ethnic.

Which kind are you thinking of?

Its not right and its not fair. That said it is sadly true so smart parents will be aware of this and choose names accordingly.

Luckily for DH FIL stepped in when MIL (German) wanted to call DH "Hans-Joachim". They lived in rural Norfolk which was mono cultural in the 70s. He got alot of hassle as it was at school for being half German anyway if he had that name would have been a whole lot worse.

Or are you coming back? At all?

I think a friend of mine must have Freakonomics actually. She's Chinese and has kept her own name, her DH is from one of the former Soviet Socalist republics and has an obviously non-British surname, but they chose three very traditional, English names first names for their DC.

I can't remember which comedian came up with this gem,something lonf the lines of. It's harder having kids when you are older, especially when it comes to choosing a name because so many names remind you of people you hate.