To ask if DS's friend as autism?

[TryingNotToPutMyFootInIt]

Name change in case outing.

DS has relatively recently made friends with a new boy in his class at school (they are 8, Y3). The boys have a lot of similar interests (unusual ones for boys their age) which they have bonded over. On the one hand i am over the moon that he finally had a friend he doesn't have to prented to like football for etc but on the other DS's behaviour has started to mimic the friend's in a bad way.

I have seen this boy have 'meltdowns' - unable to cope with seemingly everyday things, shouting, banging walls, running a sort of inner monologue out loud about how unfair if all is etc etc. and DS is now doing the same.

I know the mum to say hi to, to have a brief playground chat with. we have been chatting more since the boys have become friends. She has never said that her son is autistic but i want to have a conversation with her to establish the facts so i can find a way to deal with DS's behaviour.

To be clear, whether he is or isnt autistic will have no impact on their friendship, i have no intention of stopping them being friends or trying to put DS off the boy. Basically i really want to say to DS 'your friend has reasons he acts the way he does, you have no good reason to act out like this'.

So WIBU to speak with the mum? I'm really struggling with this swing in DS's behaviour and I dont know how else to move forward as nothing seems to be working.

Tom may have an issue other than ASD, emotional or behavioural difficulties. In my experience if people want you to know about something, they tell you. He may be neurotypical. His mum may prefer to talk to him about the reasons behind the behaviour at home or at least in private. When someone is very upset is not the best time to lecture them, it sounds like she focuses on helping him calm down from his heightened emotional state. You have no idea what conversations go on at home- or medical appointments- as would be expected. As others say focus on your son! Ask him why he is melting down. He may be copying Tom but he also mat be unsuccessfully trying to express something.

You sound like a lovely, supportive person. I would talk to your son about it first.

gee mummyoflittledragon why didn't i think of addressing my own DS's behaviour? in case you'd missed it, the whole point of the thread was working out both how to support DS's friendship whilst balancing teaching him appropriate behaviour and how to manage his own feelings.

the extent of DS's issues is that it's 'not fair' that he is expected to do anything, at any time, that he doesnt want to do. he's just being 8. its the way he expresses it that is unacceptable.

Please do not ask. I have autism and it's my choice to tell people. I would be very offended if someone asked me as it is private information.

there we go - unusual interests and meltdowns. the boy must have ASD.

OP, it is
a) non of your business if he is on the spectrum or not and
b) you don't seem to know anything about autism anyways. I have a child with severe ASD and one under assessment and I can tell you that yiu don't have a clue about it and I am a bit aghast how you can come to this conclusion based on a special interest and meltdowns

Is that his real name?

Did you miss the inverted commas?

As the parent of a child with ASD, I wouldn't be at all offended if someone asked me. I don't necessarily volunteer the information unless it natirally crops up, but that doens't mean i'm hiding it or weird about people knowing.
I would approach her next time her child has the 'meltdown' with a lighthearted 'god, i'm glad its not just my child who reacts that way, how do you deal with it? i'm struggling to know how to manage his behaviour', that way she might volunteer if he has a diagnosis. he might not HAVE a diagnosis at this point. my son wasn't diagnosed for a long time, despite me having lots of concerns.
I also think i would approach it with your son with giving him different coping mechanisms.

ginger well to be fair to the OP, she never claimed to be any kind of expert. If people are not allowed to discuss the issue or ask if a child has a condition, how the hell are they meant to learn about it?

As the parent of a child with ASD, I wouldn't be at all offended if someone asked me.

I have DC on the spectrum and I would mind. For some reason, it appears to be acceptable these days to ask for medical diagnoses when ASD is involved.
I also would not like the suggested fishing for information.

And then, the boy may not have a dx, may not be under assessment or anything. And I can tell you, suggesting that he has ASD may well upset the mum.

Don't say anything. non of your business.

Our DS's best friend is autistic. He does have the odd meltdown. DS has been friends with him since they were babies - in fact the only way we could get his best friend into parties sometimes was for DS to hold his hand and lead him in. He and our DS adore each other and I think of him as a second son.

I only know he's autistic because his mum told me when she was going for a diagnosis and I consider her to be a very good friend, not just a mum at the gate.

If DS copies anything that his friend does that we don't like we just say 'that's not how we do things in this house' but we say that for all his friends (some friends stay up later than DS, some friends spend more TV time or behave in a way that we wouldn't like DS to behave). We say the same thing about them 'yep, x may well be able to stay up until 10pm school nights. That's not what we do in this house' or 'yes, I saw 'y' having a temper tantrum because her mum wouldn't get her a McDonalds - not what we do DS so don't even think about it"

Every family has their ideas of what is acceptable or not and I fully expect some of DS's friends parents to say the same about him.

It's not criticising his friend, it's reminding him that your household functions on a different set of rules.

I’m reading on my phone and as far as I can see now on re reading the op ONLY uses inverted commas once

Yes, the first time she calls him “Tom”. It’s pretty obvious that it’s not a real name from there on.

whether he is or isnt autistic will have no impact on their friendship, i have no intention of stopping them being friends or trying to put DS off the boy. Basically i really want to say to DS 'your friend has reasons he acts the way he does, you have no good reason to act out like this'.

You sound lovely. Oh, how I wish there were more like you!

Agree with others - don't talk to the other parent. Wouldn't assume ASD either - maybe, maybe not - but you can talk to your son and tackle it just the same without putting an actual name to it.

We had similar and I started the conversation with him with something along the lines of "Everyone gets angry - that's fine - but everyone handles their anger a bit differently. Some people xyz. There might be different reasons why they handle it that way... (examples maybe) but we know that's not how you handle it...." paraphrased obviously but you get the drift.

I asked him how he handled his anger to remind him of his previous behaviour so he'd have a clear reminder of what was ok.

Pretty much getting across I wasn't criticising the friend/friends he was mimicking - they may have their reasons - but it wasn't ok for him. That that's not him and I didn't want to see that being him.

Tried to guide the conversation so he was coming out with this stuff himself rather than me talk at him. A pretty natural conversation with him coming to realisations himself.

The mimicking of mates (and over dramatic rants aren't uncommon at that age - at times we would hear our boy go off on his the whole world is against me monologues when he goes for a poo. Pretty sure he was posturing in the bathroom mirror ).

I think they start trying to find their place at this age and there's much posturing and ganching as they experiment with being the big man so this doesn't sound too unsurprising.

Rants are no more, behaviour calmed but we get the odd parroting of stupid voices and phrases which is fine. But have to say if I find it very annoying and incessant I tell him Oi boyo, I want to hear your voice not X's. Usually while I wrestle him so we're laughing and it's lighthearted.

BTW our DS is 10 years old so similar in age. They understand rules - they have to obey them all the time at school. Your house, your rules isn't insulting anyone. It's displaying your values. You don't even have to mention your DS's friend - it's your DS's behaviour you're commenting on, not his friends.

Was there a need to be sarcastic? That’s not what I got from some of your post, where you talk about strict parenting and your ds being NT. I did explain my friends NT child and getting very angry and working out his triggers.

I agree Emu. DS is very open about being an Aspie, and how he manages. Others are not, which is also why, as a teacher, I am very careful not to assume that others won’t mind being open about a do and coping strategies or the language I use to describe situations.
But how are we supposed to generate an inclusive climate if the well-intentioned asking somewhat naive and uninformed questions get snapped at and dismissed with ‘ You know nothing...ODFOD’?
Fair enough to say ‘Please don’t ask, it’s private’ but most aren’t asking to be morbidly curious or unpleasant.

Oh and maybe I should have clarified - but I think I waffled quite enough - we had all that but it was nothing to do with ASD. Just a period of handbags and amateur dramatics.

Exactly, LondonJax.
My children are adults now, and they have encountered sex, drugs, rock and roll, shoplifting, vandalism, drink driving and eating too much junk food, along with a whole lot of other choices along the way that their friends have made. Parenting is helping them steer their way through the minefield at first, letting them know what is and isn’t acceptable. Then they manage on their own. Different families, different rules, values and expectations.

Your post at 0816 made me really sad op. Your ds could actually be on the spectrum but he will never be listened to or understood, because you have decided how he is allowed to behave. He sounds like it might be a ticking time bomb, god help him when he gets into high school.

Hate me, cuss me out, tell me I’m wrong, that I’m a namby pamby attachment parenting fool. Just please remember this thread if things do continue to unravel and consider if he is truly NT or if some assessment might benefit him.

Remember also how fast things are developing at the moment in research and adult diagnosis. If you fail him in his childhood and ignore his cries for help but he gets an adult diagnosis... what then? Do you continue to discredit this as bad behaviour, ignore his diagnosis and write it off as nonsense? Or do you live with the guilt that you failed him as a child and as an adult he will have to go back in and unpick all the invalidation he experienced before he tries to put it back together in an order that makes sense.

He’s a wee boy. He’s him. You can’t progan him, you have to work with who he already is.

to clarify a few points:

"Tom" is not his real name, of course not.

The reason i suggest autism is due to both Tom's behaviour and the mother's reaction to it but also that the behaviours i've seen are very very similar to a friend's son who is diagnosed. i am not claiming to be any sort of expert at all, it just seems likely.

damson thank you for your post, lots of helpful things in there.

londonjax also thanks, so good points to think of.

mummyof sorry, to me your post came across like you thought i was trying to 'blame' or 'excuse' DS's behaviour as a result of his friend rather than tackling DS's behaviour myself.

I will not speak to the mum specifically. I will focus on DS and addressing that the behaviour is not acceptable in our home. I will continue fostering the start of the friendship with him mum too. i get the impression she is very happy about the friendship as the boys have now done several 'home for tea' sessions after school. she seems very nice so will let things develop naturally. and if oppertunity presents ask her how the hell she stays so calm!!

OP to echo the post above your most recent... could your son be on the spectrum?

nottaken if i thought for a second DS needed assessing i would be there like a shot. (i am quietly monitoring my younger DS as i feel he may well be showing some signs so i am not blind to the possibility of SN within my own family). the behaviour has come on so quickly since the start of the friendship which is why i'm sure DS is NT, he showed no signs that worried me before at all

I am not trying to 'programme' him, i am trying to teach him an acceptable way to behave so he grows into a well rounded adult. If i had concerns i would get them checked out.