To ask if DS's friend as autism?

[TryingNotToPutMyFootInIt]

Name change in case outing.

DS has relatively recently made friends with a new boy in his class at school (they are 8, Y3). The boys have a lot of similar interests (unusual ones for boys their age) which they have bonded over. On the one hand i am over the moon that he finally had a friend he doesn't have to prented to like football for etc but on the other DS's behaviour has started to mimic the friend's in a bad way.

I have seen this boy have 'meltdowns' - unable to cope with seemingly everyday things, shouting, banging walls, running a sort of inner monologue out loud about how unfair if all is etc etc. and DS is now doing the same.

I know the mum to say hi to, to have a brief playground chat with. we have been chatting more since the boys have become friends. She has never said that her son is autistic but i want to have a conversation with her to establish the facts so i can find a way to deal with DS's behaviour.

To be clear, whether he is or isnt autistic will have no impact on their friendship, i have no intention of stopping them being friends or trying to put DS off the boy. Basically i really want to say to DS 'your friend has reasons he acts the way he does, you have no good reason to act out like this'.

So WIBU to speak with the mum? I'm really struggling with this swing in DS's behaviour and I dont know how else to move forward as nothing seems to be working.

They are in year 8, do you really have to have so much input on who your ds hangs out with?

Dd is in year 9 and has ASD, she has friends who she describes as having ASD tendencies but I don’t feel the need to know if they have a diagnosis as it’s none of my business. It shouldn’t effect the way my dd acts around them as she should be understanding that everyone is different. Keep out of it and let your son carry on being this child’s friends without giving him any label.

flying that's an interesting take on it. i was coming more from the angle "he has a reason for this, you need to help him by showing another way to express his feelings". but i can see where you're coming from.

Could you find some way for your ds to destress? Maybe he is copying but I imagine he isn’t doing these meltdowns for no reasons. Perhaps you could also talk to the teacher and ask if your ds has been disruptive in class.

I also think it would be a good idea to ask his friends mother for advice and tips.

Does your ds need alone/down time for example when he gets home from school? My friends ds does and if he doesn’t get it, he will go crazy, shout, throw things around his room. He’s 10 and not on the spectrum. The older he’s got, the more demonstrative he’s become.

Have you asked your ds why he’s behaving this way? Idk if he can vocalise. I know my friends ds can’t. She has just learnt he needs a lot of space.

You could use the route that everyone has their own “quirks” and that mimicking someone is not a nice thing to do. I sure he doesn’t want his friend to think he’s being mean in any way and explaining simply that Tom sometimes needs to do these things to cope should be sufficient without knowing whether Tom has autism.

There have been several children over my DC’s school time that have clearly had some form of ASD but usually an explanation that X can’t help it or sometimes struggles in certain situations usually sufficed as an explanation. Even when I knew the child definitely had some kind of autism I don’t think I ever actually told my DC that. Sometimes they already knew (I remember they had an autism awareness session at one point in primary and some children volunteered the fact that they have ASD) and this did make it a little easier I guess but it wasn’t necessary.

tabulah no you're right, he will (and does) get a very firm "and if they jumped off a broken bridge would you do that too?" or " that's up to them and their parents to decide, I am saying no" as appropriate.

Maybe i'm overthinking, i just didn't want DS to start thinking his friend was 'bad' if i didn't explain the behaviour and just said 'i dont want you behaving that way'. it's such a clear mimic i feel i need to address that fact.

@Lovemusic33 They are in Year 3...age 8.

nottaken do you think i would be ok to speak to Tom's mum and just say 'DS has started doing XYZ, you are always so calm with Tom, can you give me some tips?'

I think you’re on the right track with that, however you would need to be careful not to make it seem that you ‘notice’ these behaviours over all his other wonderful qualities.

I’m also a bit sad for your son that you’re giving Tom all of this grace and understanding because he has a ‘reason’ for his behaviours but you’re not giving your son any of that similar space to feel his feelings.

Even if Tom has no additional needs it sounds like his mum is just lovely and wonderful at dealing with the behaviours that he presents. Those behaviours are real and valid with or without a diagnosis.

It might be an interesting thought experiment for you to consider if your opinion on Tom and his family would change if you found out there is no diagnosis there?

Ah, sorry, my mistake. Still I don’t think you can ask a parent if their child is diagnosed with ASD. Chances are there are several children on the spectrum in OP’s DS’s class.

do you think i would be ok to speak to Tom's mum and just say 'DS has started doing XYZ, you are always so calm with Tom, can you give me some tips?'

I wouldn’t, it will draw attention to the fact you’ve seen the difficult behaviour. There’s no need to talk about the other boy at all. Make it clear what you expect from your son and everyone else is irrelevant.

How would you feel if someone you didn’t know well asked you if your child had autism and they didn’t? That’s the worst case scenario for you I guess (in terms of embarrassment) and I wouldn’t think it’s worth the risk.

I’d just try and get to know them more, invite him round, maybe chat to his mum more but I certainly wouldn’t ask any personal questions. It’s not going to come across any other way than ‘I think your son is a bad influence on my perfect child’, even if that’s not where you're coming from.

“Maybe i'm overthinking”

I think you are, if he mentions his friend, I’d honestly just say, that’s for his mum to deal with... no judgement, just, it’s separate.

nottaken i guess i would therefore assume that we just had very different parenting styles - I am a relatvely strict parent, i expect a good level of behaviour and i have no time for attachment parenting styles. it is just not me. if there is no SN element then i would just assume she has a different strategy. but i'm sorry, i will never be the parent who has a child yell and scream in their face and then be nicey nicey about it, it is not appropriate and they need to know that. She ignores the behaviour and focuses on calming him. I feel addressing the behaviour is vital.

I do appreciate that DS's feelings of frustration are valid but he cannot deal with it by yelling, screaming, hitting and growling. It is not a behaviour i'm prepared to let go unchallenged in a NT child who was not doing it before he met this friend.

Think it’s a crazy idea to talk to the parent.

I was approached by a parent when dd2 was in year one, she indicated that her ds was copying some of DD’s behaviours (sensory issues, holding ears, making humming noises), I was mortified as she almost implied that my dd’s Autism is contagious. How about teaching your son that he doesn’t have to copy other children and that he should be himself? Your sons going to come in to contact with many children who display behaviours that you don’t like (they won’t all have ASD or ADHD, they might just be naughty or rude). Teach your son that just because his friend is acting up and getting their own way, doesn’t mean he can.

My ds has asd and I wouldn't mind at all if another parent asked about it. But others might not feel the same.

'Tom' sounds a lot like my ds and I'd be very glad that you were seeing the reason for his behaviour and not distancing your ds from the friendship. You sound amazing.

My dd has "copied" some of ds' behaviour during meltdown but there is a very different quality to it. With DS it's clear that he has totally lost control. With dd it's a very obvious trying it out to see what my reaction will be and is completely within her control. Ignoring it has been my strategy. Once she sees that it isn't going to get a reaction / get her what she wants, she stops. DS doesn't because for him the behaviour isn't conscious and comes from being overwhelmed.

grandmas i wouldn't be embarrassed really, i'd just say 'no he's just being naughty and i'm attempting to deal with it'. but then i refuse to let other people's opinion get to me.

tabulah that makes sense, i will just keep focusing on this not being ok behaviour.

interesting point that he may not know he's mimicking. i will try and have a chat with him about why he thinks acting like this is ok. i appreciate he's only 8 and some tantrums/bad behaviour is to be expected, but equally i need to teach him its not ok and to find other ways.

shednik that is exactly it. i can see in DS that he is making himself do it, there is no sign at all of the 'out of control' element that i have seen in Tom.

You don't need to know if he has autism or not. You just address your own son's behaviour. There is no need to bring the other child into it.

I also

My son (7) is the other boy. ASD, ADHD, SPD, Dyspraxia. I’ve always been very open with other parents about it, but this is not at all typical. If the child does have ASD, the mum may not be aware. Or she may not have come to terms with it. However, the other mum is probably also delighted that her boy has found a friend in yours. You do sounds lovely, and the kind of mum I wish there were more of (most parents at school avoid us, or patronising).
Perhaps ‘I’ve noticed [insert your child’s name] has had some challenging behaviours recently. I’m not sure how to manage them.’ Just that - no comment about her child. How she responds will tell you a lot about how comfortable she is. She may say - I have that problem with my son too... But it gives her the opportunity to give up any information voluntarily. She may be desperate for support.
I would say though that whether her child does have ASD or not, it shouldn’t affect how you deal with your son. Focus on his behaviours. Don’t bring the friend into it.

I also wouldn't ask. I learned at a recent training day that thousands of children are misdiagnosed with ASC or ADHD/ADD when In fact they have suffered trauma in some way. It's just down to you to parent your child and not project your sons behaviour on another parent.

Ugh ASD. I'm not awake yet.

“My ds has asd and I wouldn't mind at all if another parent asked about it.”

It wouldn’t bother me either, if it was my DS who does have an ASD, I’d be a bit taken aback if it was my DD who doesn’t though... that’s the issue, that the friend might not have one.

It’s for you to get to the bottom of it. Not just to say his behaviour is unacceptable because he’s nt. If you don’t do this, you’ll have hell in the teenage years imo.