To think it's rubbish that you can tell if someone is of Jewish descent?

[brentlondon]

I'm not talking about stereotypical features etc. as I'm pale and ginger with a very ordinary surname...

I have a very good (Jewish) friend who claims he can tell if someone who isn't Jewish has a Jewish background. Be that a Jewish grandmother or something. Without taking him too seriously I asked him whether it was some special power he possesses but he is adamant it's something he is able to do. He guessed it about me, or so he says.

A few years ago someone told me that it was very likely that I have some Jewish ancestry.

The other day I got chatting to a local reform rabbi by chance and we got talking about my background and history. I mentioned that I am of partly "Jewish" descent. He remarked that he "wasn't at all surprised".

AIBU to think this is rubbish and that you can't tell. I mean, I can take a guess if someone is of Irish descent but that's because of features and a surname. Surely this kind of thing is impossible and they're having me on?

It might have been something you said or knew about that is specific to Jewish culture, not necessarily how you look. Like, I don't know, knowing about kosher kitchens or something.

I don't think it's any different to having Irish descent in terms of people knowing if you have or not. A bit of how you look, what your name is, things you say.

I live in area with a lot of Jews (not sure which type sorry!), and other than the caps/ringlets/skirts etc, or those big furry hats (I don't know the name of them) I wouldn't say I could 'tell' if someone was even Jewish let alone of some sort of Jewish ancestry.

The Jewish women in the area do always seem to have lovely hair though. And I love the ringlet curls at the front with the little boys.

We definitely have Jewish ancestry. My Nan and siblings are quite obviously ethnically Jewish and her brother had red hair, as do my cousins. I've been abroad before and asked which part of Ukraine I was from. Apparently that's where our ancestors came from (I didn't know this when asked).

I think my partner's Gran is also Jewish. They changed their name and religion during WW2 from Kellar to a completely different name and his Nan recalls stories of hiding in sewers from the Nazis as a child.
As a member of the L.P. it does make me feel uncomfortable. There is certainly more Anti-Semitism than people are aware of.

When I first met my partner I asked if he had some Med in the family, I was wrong but close as it turned out his father was Portuguese. I don't know what made me think that.

Another reason I think I look Jewish is because I went for a meeting a few years ago where members from a Jewish museum were attending. They saw me and assumed I was from the museum. The Rabbi also asked me after about my heritage and stated he knew I was "one of us".

I think it's possible to tell Jewish ancestry, and it's also possible to tell Jewish upbringing. My Jewdar for both is pretty accurate!

My mum can tell. No idea how but she’s never been wrong.

I think there are certain 'looks' that are typical of various places / groups of people.

I have the pale skin of my Irish and Scottish ancestors. A couple of years ago I taught some Kosovan students, they were sisters and a cousin so I didn't think much of them looking alike, until I saw the first Kosovan medal winner at the Olympics, I will forever associate those features with Kosove. And I may be completely wrong, she might be another sister and no one else looks like her.

@AdoraBell, so is it the fact that the company might sell your data/DNA and make money out of it, or what others can do with the data that puts you off?

From the 23andme site:

1. We will not sell, lease, or rent your individual-level information (i.e., information about a single individual's genotypes, diseases or other traits/characteristics) to any third-party or to a third-party for research purposes without your explicit consent.

1. We will use your genetic information and/or self-reported information and share it with third-parties for scientific research purposes only if you sign the appropriate Consent Document. Note that we will disclose your individual-level information only if we obtain additional explicit consent from you.

I am not having a go - I work in genetic research and consent is always a big issue, so I am just genuinely interested in understanding how/why people see it as a problem.

(and again, apologies OP!)

The Jewish women in the area do always seem to have lovely hair though.

They might be wigs!

What about all the Jewish people she misses because they don't conform to her idea of what a Jewish person should loook like?

I have Jewish ancestry, but have never been asked about it, and have always had a surprised response to it when I’ve talked about it. I have a surname that people find very hard to place, so it comes up from time to time. It’s something I’d like to know more about, despite being thoroughly irreligious.

Yes @TokenBritPoshOfCourse, because when we are newborns we are held closely and study our primary caregiver's faces, the human brain (along with monkeys and apes) performs facial recognition, albeit that our eyesight is not brilliant at the beginning. But as we grow and by about 3-6months, we link certain features of our "parents" to characteristic traits etc. We read emotions etc which are connected to eye contact (distance of eyes, lines, focus etc). Later we put together that those traits (eye colour/distance/ nose shape/ lip shape etc) are attributed to certain peoples etc.

Many people of certain ethnicities and creeds can discern themselves from many others.

True that in "passing for white" in the USA was possible until 2 and 3rd generation children of mixed heritage were in possession of characteristics of what one would call black; maybe very curly hair, round high cheeks, broader nose, also differences in hip shape etc, however possessing white skin. Many people of colour can spot these characteristics in others of mixed heritage but 2nd or more generation.

It is truely fascinating! The human race.

It’s the possibility of any company changing the T&Cs in the future that puts me off.

It may not happen with companies that deal with DNA so I might be worrying about nothing 🤷‍♀️

My DS can spot a Jewish person from afar; we call it his OyVeydar!

My background is undetermined middle-eastern (long story) and one brother looks like Robert De Niro and the other looks like a slightly more muscular and tanned Bashar al-Assad (he’s a much better human being tho...).

We’re fairly regular visitors to Israel and so I think you absorb that look (IYSWIM) so when you see it somewhere else, it stands out more.

A PP said she’d been taken for everything from Syrian to Brazilian and it’s weird! DD often gets identified as Brazilian and when we were in Sicily last year, most people couldn’t work out where we were from (although my mangled Italian didn’t help!).

I agree, human migration and the amazing looks it can give to us is just fascinating.

OyVeydar love it!!

@alpineibex, they have glorious hair because they're wearing very expensive wigs. Most orthodox women wear wigs or head scarves. Their are arguments between those who wear wigs and those who wear headscarves.

I live in NY and have hair envy all the time of those flippin' wigs!

I think you can see it in some people and not in others. We are talking about people whose ancestors were very widely dispersed, so there is going to be diversity in the way they look.

Simon Bird said he gets asked a lot if he is Jewish, (not just since he did Friday Night Dinner,) but he isn't.

i was surprised when Simon Bird said he wasnt Jewish tbh.
I bet he has a Great Grandfather from eg Russia.

He should do "Who do you think you are?"

It is certainly not rubbish to say a lot of us can tell but nor is it particularly important. Sometimes it's useful to know - probably unlikely to want to stay late for that Friday afternoon urgent work thing etc. I know and live near and work with a lot of different Jewish people (N London) as did my parents in the NE of England too so we proabbly know a bit more than some other people, names, clothes, way people speak, sometimes looks.

I've been doing my ancestry (DNA and family tree) for a while now and so far back to 1700s and early 1700s so far it seems C of E or Catholic and no one born so far outside of these islands if you include Orkney, but I live in hope that one of them might be more interesting and tehre were a good few master mariners, sailors etc who you would have thought got around a bit. They were just abhout all so poor there are very few records when you go back which makes it harder. What is clear is we are all related to lot of people and we all came out of Africa originally.

Very little makes me happier than when a Jewish guy thinks I'm Jewish. My mom has her suspicions since we are "swedes" who can't eat pastry without ballooning and her mothers Maiden name was Rydell. Despite my grandmother being the daughter of a Swedish Lutheran priest she always maintained that we were the descendants of Jewish Bankers for Swedish nobles. I'm actually considering converting, but seeing as I would be doing it as a young single woman I don't know if I would be welcomed as much as if I were converting to get married.

Well now that I've heard about the gorgeous wigs I'm deffo converting ;)

Did anyone see this week's episode of the US version of Who Do You Think You Are with Jessica Biel? She was always told that her father's family was German and was very surprised to find out that the immigrant great-great-grandparents were Hungarian Jews.