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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be shocked that a US friend is paying $1970 a month health insurance

203 replies

crunchymint · 17/04/2018 15:04

That is her monthly premium for health insurance and is an insane amount of money.

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TheyMostlyComeOutAtNightMostly · 18/04/2018 08:42

I do find it depressing that threads like this always assume that the only alternatives are either the NHS or the US system. There are 18 other countries in the G20 operating perfectly viable alternative systems between the two.

I’m not anti the NHS on principle but let’s not pretend that any change will therefore land us with the US situation which costs twice as much and still leaves people funding children’s cancer treatment with yard sales.

Oliversmumsarmy · 18/04/2018 08:59

Another curiosity my DB noticed was that US clinics love to do scans and tests

Oh if only the NHS would do some of these instead of fobbing people off.
I might not have suffered for 5+years with slipped discs and dp would not be dying of bowel cancer

crunchymint · 18/04/2018 09:49

TheyMostly Because it is the US the British Government looks to when looking to change our social welfare systems. Many European countries have far more generous welfare systems and medical care than we do, and they pay more tax. But the British Government is not interested in that.

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DGRossetti · 18/04/2018 10:23

Another curiosity my DB noticed was that US clinics love to do scans and tests. Loads of them. And give you the results (he's got a library of DVDs with his MRI, PET and CAT scans). But that's more about covering doctors in case of litigation than patient care.

Is it just about litigation or also about ramping up costs?

Well it does ramp up costs obviously (I read a spoof of "House" once, where there was an MRI in every patients room Grin). But DB say he thinks it's more to insulate doctors from actually having to commit to anything ... basically "Here's your scans, now you decide what to do.". After all, a doctor can't be sued if the patient dictates the treatment.

(For students of history, the fact we are headed towards a medical philosophy where every individual is treated uniquely and on their own directions may seem strangely familiar. Throw in the serious research into biorhythms and you wonder if it's time to invest in leech farms ....)

mathanxiety · 19/04/2018 20:31

DS works in a clinic that caters for medicare patients, many of whom arrive in terrible shape for their first appointment - blood pressure through the roof, dangerous oedema, out of control diabetes, gangrenous feet. Many are taken straight from the clinic to the hospital down the street by ambulance for same day surgery. They are in terrible shape for a number of reasons, some institutional and some personal to them. Some have gone to incompetent doctors in the past. Some have gone to good doctors but have disregarded medical advice, refused to fill prescriptions, etc. Hence one woman last week who was rushed to the hospital to get her leg amputated thanks to complications from diabetes.

One of DS's duties is to go through every patient's entire medical record - as much as is available - and check that all possible tests have been done, check family medical issues noted, check what medications have been prescribed and diagnoses made over what is often decades worth of medical history. The reason to do this is to facilitate proper treatment and to see if further testing is indicated. The business model of the clinic favours health maintenance over emergency intervention, which is far more costly. So they invest time in testing, in impressing on the patients how important it is to take the Metformin or the asthma medication or the blood pressure pills. They have a dietitian on staff. The clinic is paid by Medicaid.

Testing is a good thing. Doctors in general do not order tests to keep from making a decision but to facilitate the right decision. All testing has to be run past the insurance company that pays for it. Insurance companies have a vested interest in keeping costs of treatment low.

All health insurance companies develop treatment protocols that doctors and surgeons have to follow or fight against when considering treatment and testing options. My late FIL was a neurosurgeon with an Ivy League undergrad and medical education who complained bitterly about debating the pros and cons of a course of treatment with some nurse employed by the insurance company. Sometimes he had to persuade the insurance company rep that tests were not needed because all indications showed X or Y problem. Sometimes he had to beg for tests to be allowed.

Doctors can be sued no matter what the circumstances. A doctor can choose to tell the patient that they can no longer treat a patient who is non-compliant or wants to use boiled herbs instead of chemotherapy or blood pressure medication, etc. and many do that because the alternative is the cost and time spent dealing with family members and their lawyers afterwards.

OlennasWimple · 19/04/2018 21:15

And we just take for granted that we go to A&E to get sorted for free

And that is one of the reasons why A&E is at breaking point in many places

One of the things I liked about our insurance in the US was getting an annual statement through that detailed the care we had received through the year with the amount that we had paid and the amount that it had cost. Some of my prescriptions were very expensive but I had paid a flat rate $18 for each of them, a useful reminder of why we pay insurance rather than "pay as you go". We hadn't taken full benefit of some other aspects, so it was a useful reminder that we were paying for things like dental and optical and not using them fully.

mathanxiety · 19/04/2018 23:05

One of the things I like about the US approach is the annual medical exam that many people sort of take for granted. Many insurance companies cover 100% of a 'well visit'. Issues can be flagged - blood pressure, weight and resultant issues, etc. As well as that women are encouraged to get mammograms and pap smears annually or semi annually. My DCs had a medical exam every year after they were babies and done with their baby and preschool regular schedule of exams and shots. The state also insisted on an annual dental exam, so that was done too, and the annual dental checkup and cleaning was covered by our insurance.

OlennasWimple · 19/04/2018 23:35

One of the things I like about the US approach is the annual medical exam

Me too - I said that upthread but was (more or less) told that it was because the US system likes paying for unnecessary tests Hmm

More like they have real skin in the game of preventative medicine (because it's cheaper than cure) whereas the complicated patchwork of NHS funding means that the costs of someone having, say, cervical cancer are a mostly born by hospitals but the costs of prevention / early detection are born by GPs

crunchymint · 19/04/2018 23:41

You can have an annual health check on the NHS. You are entitled to one. But it is not promoted because there is no evidence base for it in healthy people.
Everyone on medication should have an annual review under the NHS.

A&E is creaking under the strain of other cuts to mental health and social care.

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Twotabbycats · 19/04/2018 23:56

It does sound like a lot. In comparison, we have worldwide international insurance which covers us in any country EXCEPT the USA and pay around 1,100 GBP a month for the two of us. There is no excess - we could have one and pay less. I have a lot of health issues and definitely get my money's worth. DH pretty healthy so less so at the moment. There are some limits on treatment though - I'm in permanent physiotherapy and get 30 sessions a year which is not really enough, and have a lot of meds so nearly always go over my annual limit of 1,600 GBP. Plus factors - no scramble at 8am to get a GP appt - call any time and will have an appt within a week, same or next day if urgent. 2-4 week wait to see specialist. Complete choice of doctors - can see any specialist I want in any country except USA. Very short wait for elective surgery - have waited less than a week and I get to have a say on the date. Health insurance is our biggest expenditure after our mortgage. Very glad we have it.

crunchymint · 19/04/2018 23:59

£1,100 is a large amount of money to me and more than my mortgage.

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MontyPythonsFlyingFuck · 20/04/2018 00:33

"You wont need to soon, EU have announced today plans to make Biometric ID cards compulsory across the block, which they own and retain said data."

Really? Can we have a link to this? It sounds somewhat unlikely.

LadyCassandra · 20/04/2018 00:40

I have only skim-read the last part of the thread, but what I have noticed, is that generally there is an opinion about the NHS, that it is either this or the US system (which is a ridiculous system). There never seems to be any discussion about other countries where the system works better.
I live in Australia and before i left the UK i worked for the NHS. I would have defended it to the death, but it is not fit for purpose anymore. The Australian system seems to work well, if you can afford it you have health insurance and if not you go through the public system. There are tax breaks for those who have insurance.
I feel like the NHS is a sacred cow that no-one wants to touch, but it isn't really working like it was invented for.

Kursk · 20/04/2018 00:45

We pay $100 per month per family member on our insurance. Our max annual out of pocket is $5000. A doctors visit is $25, which I don’t think is too bad.

I am don’t visit the doctor much but when I do the care is extremely good.

The first aid knowledge of the average American is much better than in the UK!

OlennasWimple · 20/04/2018 00:46

Monty - there is existing EU legislation on biometric ID cards, and the UK has been issuing them for about a decade to people who have been leave to remain in the UK. However they have bugger all to do with gene mapping or DNA collection - the only biometric information that they capture is fingerprints and a facial photo

OlennasWimple · 20/04/2018 00:47

The first aid knowledge of the average American is much better than in the UK

And the stuff you can buy over the counter is significantly better!!

crunchymint · 20/04/2018 00:57

That is because they have no choice, such as using superglue bought over the counter to repair significant cuts.

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Kursk · 20/04/2018 01:07

OlennasWimple

Yes it is! So much better!

thefirstmrsdewinter · 20/04/2018 01:24

My mum is a retired teacher (US based) and her excellent health care coverage is provided via the state (her former employer). Her copays are something like $20. She was treated for cancer in one of the best hospitals in the country a few years ago and it didn't cost her much of anything.

These threads tend to be very black and white, while in reality there are many permutations of health care options in the US and the UK. Poor and elderly people in the US also get free/low cost healthcare via Medicare and Medicaid, and people who can afford it may get private treatment in the UK.

helacells · 20/04/2018 01:28

What are the plans to save the NHS? It is obvious that it can't carry on as it is. Is the govt considering semi privatizing as they do in other Euro countries? Are people generally realistic that it can't remain free at point of service for everyone much longer? What solutions are both parties exploring that the majority of the population would accept so it remains free for the most needy and affordable for everyone else?

LassWiADelicateAir · 20/04/2018 02:04

Don't forget that private medical insurance here in the UK doesn't cover chronic conditions, pre existing or not. So diabetes for example is usually reliant on the NHS even if you have good insurance

It also doesn't cover anything which you had one off treatment for. I had endometrial ablation done under Standard Life private health insurance 13 years ago. I changed my employer and new employer use BUPA. I had to disclose the endometrial ablation and the BUPA policy excludes anything relating to it.

It also excludes any treatment for migraine.

mathanxiety · 20/04/2018 06:43

I imagine if annual exams are done in the US there is in fact a lot of evidence that it saves money for insurance companies who would otherwise be forking over money for expensive treatment, operations, etc.

mathanxiety · 20/04/2018 06:48

Superglue is what Britons use on their teeth www.bbc.com/news/av/health-32955519/dental-woes-i-fix-my-broken-tooth-with-superglue Grin

Superglue actually has its place in an emergency.
[[https://mayoclinichealthsystem.org/hometown-health/speaking-of-health/should-super-glue-be-in-your-first-aid-kit]
And there is superglue-like otc liquid plasters you can buy. Skin adhesive is an alternative to stitches.

mathanxiety · 20/04/2018 06:49

Let's try that again -
mayoclinichealthsystem.org/hometown-health/speaking-of-health/should-super-glue-be-in-your-first-aid-kit

'Ultimately, the best outcome for you or your child can be assured by visiting a health care provider who can properly treat the wound. Super glue can be a viable option if used under the right circumstances (small and clean cut, not too deep and not infectious). If you choose to use household super glue or even over-the-counter adhesive products, do so with caution and full understanding of the risks, including infection and scarring.'

crunchymint · 20/04/2018 13:10

mathanxiety Or just evidence that consumers like them?

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