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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Aibu to think if you want the legal protection of marriage then get married

947 replies

Sofabitch · 14/04/2018 12:19

I was listening to the radio this morning and they were talking about how widows allowance isn't paid to couples that weren't married, even if children are involved.

Aibu to think marriage is essentially the legal joining of people and if you want to be recognised legally and finacially then you should get married.

I guess the supreme court will ultimately decide if I am being unreasonable. But i can't help but think people dont realise the legal security marriage offers and they should.

OP posts:
CelticSelkie · 15/04/2018 11:04

The interesting thing imo is that even tho men are so averse to marriage these days, the birth rate hasnt fallen that far.
So in biological terms women (lower status women without a big income) have to accept the shit they're offered by men who are overpaid at the expense of the women they work with.

Bluelady · 15/04/2018 11:07

They don't HAVE to accept it. They choose to. Years ago I worked with a woman whose partner desperately wanted children - she did too but not as much as him. She made it abundantly clear to him that there was no possibility of embarking on a pregnancy until she'd "got a ring on her finger" (her words). The power was entirely in her hands.

CelticSelkie · 15/04/2018 11:17

Well in that situation she held some power, not being as bothered about children.

More often though women being subject to a timeframe lose power. Yes they can walk away, and should, but that might cost them the opportunity to be a mother. It might not but it could well.

LoveInTokyo · 15/04/2018 11:27

I knew a couple where she was adamant she didn’t want children and he did, but she cared an awful lot about the ring and the dress and the party. He said he wouldn’t marry her unless she agreed to have children. They did eventually get married and have two children.

DanceDisaster · 15/04/2018 11:28

BertrandRussell

Suggesting getting married in secret is saying that people are bothered by what other people think, rather than how they feel about marriage themselves.

Do you mean that, because I suggested up thread to someone who wanted to avoid a big wedding, but who also didn’t think tge could have a no-ceremony, no-party wedding, that they should marry in secret, that I don’t care about marriage, just about what other people think? Sorry if I’ve misunderstood. Is that the point you’re making?

DanceDisaster · 15/04/2018 11:28

Think they*

Eastie77 · 15/04/2018 11:31

OP YANBU at all and I say this as an unmarried mum of two young DC.

Reluctance to marry in order to protect assets works both ways though. A friend of mine is in her late thirties, desperate to have children as soon as possible but does not want to marry her partner. She owns several properties in London and SE England and earns a very high salary.

Her 41 year old partner was renting in a shared house when they met before moving in with her and in her words "has brought very little financially to the table". He earns about £14k (barely living wage in London) and pays towards the bills in the house she owns. He would happily get married, work PT and do PT childcare.

Her mum and many of our mutual friends see this as 'evidence' that he is after her money. If the situation was reversed those same friends would be urging her to get married in order to protect herself before having children. Instead my friend is being praised for having the good sense not to risk losing her assets by marrying this man but told to go ahead and have kids as she is financially stable so can get rid of the "dead weight" dad easily enough of things don't work out. I feel very sorry for him.

VladmirsPoutine · 15/04/2018 11:32

What I think is a good thing that all sides can agree on is that we are even having the discussion as a starting point. In my parents' generation they got married and had babies as that's just what you did. That was just normal life - what everyone did.

I think it's good that women are a lot more discerning and sceptical these days and I'll get my nieces to join MN when they're a bit more grown up. There was a thread the other day about women choosing to be childfree or choosing to do all manner of things that deviates from the 'norm'. All this can only be for the greater good of women and feminism.

LifeBeginsAtGin · 15/04/2018 11:35

Most contraception failures are down to user error.

SchnitzelVonKrumm · 15/04/2018 11:53

@BertrandRussell Several people on this thread have said they don't want a big wedding but would upset friends and family if they just nipped down to the registry office. Personally I think if you're grown up enough to have children and a mortgage you should be grown up enough to say it's your choice how you get married but clearly some people are bothered by what others think.

GreenTulips · 15/04/2018 11:53

If the situation was reversed those same friends would be urging her to get married in order to protect herself

Well Ian it likely that she'd send the partner and children packing to a rundown council estate on free school meals ans secondhand clothes whilst she lords over her wealth?

Very unlikely

GreenTulips · 15/04/2018 11:54

*Well it's unlikely

ButchyRestingFace · 15/04/2018 12:00

For those who don't want to get married because of the patriarchy, societal expectations associated with marriage, blah blah, why not get married, tell no-one, change nothing and carry on as before?

Campaign for Civil Partnerships for heterosexual couples by all means, and if they come about in your lifetime, then you can get divorced and have a CP with family and friends (if you wish) in attendance?

But why deny yourself the rights and protection of marriage in the meantime - it's cutting off your own nose to spite your face. Confused

BertrandRussell · 15/04/2018 12:18

"For those who don't want to get married because of the patriarchy, societal expectations associated with marriage, blah blah, why not get married, tell no-one, change nothing and carry on as before?"

Because it's about what I think, not what other people think.

phoenix1973 · 15/04/2018 12:25

Yanbu. Got partner and kid been together 22 years he wont marry.
Yes i do fear if one of us dies as we've got the usual assets. I've told him that if one of us dies then we get hit with iht and receive no widowers payment from the Government. What more can i do. I shouldn't have had a child out of wedlock.

Anniegetyourgun · 15/04/2018 12:50

I'm glad there's been a thorough debate on that item. I was muttering at the radio all the time it was on. It reminded me of the DM-sadface couple waving goodbye to their lovely house because they had had an interest-only mortgage which came to its full term and guess what? They didn't have the money to pay off the capital. Apparently it was all someone else's fault that it had never occurred to them, for the 20-odd years they were bringing up a family in that home, that sooner or later it would have to be paid for, notwithstanding annual letters from the bank etc. Interest-only mortgages, like cohabiting arrangements, are wonderful things if you know what you're doing and have backup arrangements in place. If, on the other hand, you just assume it'll be all OK without checking the facts, you're going to come a cropper.

Nearlyadad · 15/04/2018 13:08

Re Easter
I guess rightly or wrongly he’s suffering for the sins of many other men and hundreds of years of a patriarchal system

Sunshinegirl82 · 15/04/2018 14:28

I've read the full thread and I have to say I'm struggling to fully understand the arguments that some people are putting forward.

I understand that people might have objections to marriage based upon their personal view of it as paternalistic/out dated etc but the fact remains that if you want the benefits marriage confers then it is currently your only option. That isn't right and it probably should change but as pp have pointed out changing the "label" which is really all we're talking about when it comes down to it is unlikely to be high on the priority list of any government for quite some time. Even if we all agreed tomorrow it was a priority it would be years away from coming into force.

There seem to be people here who think they are being told that they "should" get married. I can't really see that anyone has said that (apologies if I've missed it!) The majority seem to be saying, inform yourself properly, consider what's right for you and take the appropriate steps for you. If when all is said and done the best position for you personally is to acquire the rights that marriage offers then it's up to you to weigh up if you'd rather be married (even though you may object to the concept) or miss out on those rights.

That is the current position. There are no alternative options as things stand. Am I missing something?

LoveInTokyo · 15/04/2018 14:43

No, you’re not missing anything. Good summary:

derxa · 15/04/2018 15:10

I've never felt that I'm a victim of the patriarchy because I got married. Maybe because I'm hard headed. I'd rather have financial security than principles.

CelticSelkie · 15/04/2018 15:32

I felt i was a victim of the patriarchy as it was so hard to get away from abusive x... so hard to get solicitor to take me seriously (tried to warn him what he would be up against in court and he didnt listen). Had to fight for maintenance. Had to fight to get back in to work place.

ButchyRestingFace · 15/04/2018 16:05

Because it's about what I think, not what other people think.

In that case, why not get married for the financial benefits and security that marriage brings, and screw what anyone else thinks?

Or don't get married. No-one else cares.

BertrandRussell · 15/04/2018 16:29

“Or don't get married. No-one else cares“

I won’t. I know they don’t.

Well, actually, they seem to care quite a lot. No idea why!

WhatsGoingOnEh · 15/04/2018 16:31

So tell the men. But wait! Men do what they want. Men collectively do not care about women's issues or rights. Some do. But how do you make men be better people?

Don't shag men before they marry you. That'll hit them where it hurts.

I honestly feel the Sexual Revolution has put women back 500 years.

Original poster
Sofabitch · 15/04/2018 16:31

There is a current case though where someone is challenging the law here.

They are about to go to court to say not being entitled to widows benefits is wrong. I really hope common sense prevails here as this could open a huge can of worms

OP posts: