To wish the grand national wasnt an event

[Dineout112]

I hate it as so many horses get badly injured or even killed . I don’t know how people can enjoy it 🙁

The injury at Bechers was to a jockey. They also use a tent/screen for an injured jockey on the floor to protect privacy/decency. So everybody jumping up and down about the dead horse at Bechers, just stop. You are wrong.All horses came home safely.

I always hope it's a jockey. Not as a fatality, obviously - just that they don't humanely destroy jockeys with broken pelvises or arms or whatever.

Why does everyone say they are treated like kings, looked after so well etc? You think they want to stand in stalls all day, maybe with an hours turnout, on their own as they’re too expensive to go in together and risk injury? You think they give a shit how hot their showers are, how clean their 12 x 12 box is or how precisely nutritionally balanced their grain is?

Horses are meant to eat forage, hang out with their mates, snooze, and have the occasional hooley. They are not like like us, they don’t care about being warm and dry and having a career or looking good. In the rain and snow mine would rather be out in it than in a warm dry stable, and one of them is a warmblood. If they were in a herd running for their life of course they would run, doesn’t mean they would chose to do it if they had any other option.

The racing industry doesn’t give a shit about horses, it cares about money. And the horses are spat out the other end. It’s not just racing either, all competitive horse sports where the money comes before the well-being of the horse are a disgrace, I don’t know a huge amount about eventing but I’ve seen some vile displays of ‘horsemanship’ in showjumping and dressage. The sooner we own horses for their own sakes rather than the money or the prestige, the better.

Well that just shows that there is more than one way to look after a horse. You are very pleased with the way you do things, that's great. Personally mine can't wait to come into their clean dry warm stables at night and they love competing!

It was a jockey being treated under the tent, he looks about 12!

Horses have to a large extent been domesticated and those that live with us are dependent on our care. Of course it is important to look after their shelter, hygiene and feed. They might not care about it but it can affect them negatively if we get these things wrong.

Sarkyharky the way I keep my horses has nothing to do with this discussion, I was using them as an illustration, although in my experience if you leave horses to do their own thing they’d rather use shelter as and when they need it, they don’t bring themselves into a stable at night and stand there for 14 hours when given the choice. My point is racehorses are not treated like kings, horses wouldn’t choose any of the things they have forced upon them in the name of keeping them ‘like kings’.

Chrys2017 (from post down thread which I missed earlier). That's unfair. The improvements made are definitely more than a PR exercise.

Would you mind telling me where you got those stats about foals pls? I am genuinely interested, not being snippy.

Here we go again, a lot of people(who I'd bet 50% of have never been near a bloody horse) start spouting about cruelty to animals because of one highly publicised race. In order to race and run - and yes, win money, these horses are kept in peak condition, and have all 'mod cons' and the latest up to date feed, supplements and treatment. Yes, should they sustain an unrecoverable injury they are destroyed, where they 'fell' to prevent further suffering of transportation.
BUT - domestic horses are also destroyed because of such injuries too, sustained in fields, playing with the herd or running away from a potential predator (not usually an issue in the UK but you try telling the horse that!), slipping in the stable or in other equine activities as innocent as a potter along the woods for a Sunday afternoon. It's not the fact they are a race horse solely that they are destroyed, horses do not deal well with the length of immobilisation required to heal a large break, any horse, from the cheapest and scruffiest pony to the most expensive race horse.
And those horses in racing have it a lot better than many, many others who are used for 'entertainment'. They are given every opportunity and every advantage (yes, I agree that it's to make money but the fact stands) Other horses, those used by some sections of society for cart racing for an example, are in poor condition, too young and kept tethered on public land a lot of the time with no company, water or adequate grazing/shelter, their feet aren't tended by a qualified farrier, and they've never seen a vet - and they're raced either bareback or in front of a trap - it's not televised though so who cares about that pony who broke his leg and was left to die in agony by the side of the road?
I have said the above because regardless of my personal feelings on racing, I get so damned pissed off with people who know naff all preaching about how cruel it all is, when there are far worse things happen to horses every day and where's the outcry for them?
Rant over.

Saltcrust your posts have been really balanced, educational and informative. Just wanted to thank you for them.

Beer - but that's as patronising as saying that all people who are anti hunting know nothing about the countryside.

First, you don't know that.

Secondly, people are allowed to have different opinions to you. Just because you can enjoy or live with something doesn't mean that you can lecture other people about it.

(That's a plural "you". I guess I mean "one", but it's just too wanky!)

Kind of you to say so XiCi

I dislike it when the arguments get hysterical (on both sides of the fence!).

@Saltcrust
Those stats you were asking about came from the article linked below. Re-reading, I see that figure I cited was just for foals in North America, so world-wide it will be even more than 50,000 by-product foals.
tuesdayshorse.wordpress.com/2010/08/19/milk-of-death-the-dark-side-of-the-nurse-mare-industry/

Hope none of you bet on Blaklion. He's a guaranteed faller at the first hurdle.

I called it. Being my pick in the sweepstake is the kiss of death for a horse's chances.

If there are any horses that deserve your sympathy and horror at the way they are treated look to Egypt.
Horses and Donkeys.

The adverts with the hobbled , injured donkeys struggling up a hill are sanitised to even get onto TV.
No they are hobbling in temperatures of 40c while some cunt with a stick beats them every step. Instead of using your energy to hit it, why not help it?

I saw horses and donkeys with pressure wounds from harnesses that I could put my fist into.
One beautiful and tiny grey with a literal hole in his face after a collision, in the Brook Animal Hospital who was being patched up to go out on the road again. The vet said he should've been PTS but the owner refused (with the horse being his livelihood)

I saw a teenage boy bring a stick down on the quarters of a skeletal horse because it didn't want to go past a bus. Such a force the stick broke .

I will never set foot in Egypt again, hated it.

Yes I have seen abuse in the UK, I'm not naive , I knew people who knew nothing about the horses they kept and their ignorance caused just as much suffering as cruelty does.

Thanks for source Chrys2017 I'm not sure how system in the States compares to that of the UK/Europe but I'll investigate it from the other side.

The figure from the British Horseracing Authority (as far as I can see, there aren't accurate global figures) is that approx 5,000 thoroughbred foals are born in GB annually (4, 663 in 2016).
Rules have recently been changed regarding notifications of foals born for racing (must be registered within 30 days from 1 Jan 2018) and that is just one of many concrete efforts being made to improve transparency and traceability in a bid to improve lifelong thoroughbred welfare.

I have an ex race horse in my field. My father bought her in 2000 as a two year old. All I know is she costs me a fortune in feed and farriers bills. She has a companion horse who is ancient. The two of them seem to be very happy.
I think you're a hypocrite if you criticise racing and you have pets of any kind or use animal products.

Can we not be concerned for all horses living with compromised welfare? Saying racehorse are fine and we should be more concerned about horses trotting in roads, or horses in Eygypt is like saying we should only be concerned about sexual assault and catcalling and groping in bars are ok because they aren’t as bad (apologies, it’s early and I couldn’t think of another analogy). They are both part of the same problem, and actually whilst horses in Egypt clearly have it worse, so do the people, the horses are suffering due to poverty and ignorance in their owners. Nobody in racing is poor, or ignorant, vets and farriers know it’s not appropriate to work or shoe 2 year olds, no one needs to race their horse to be able to afford food. We need to stop viewing horses as a commodity full stop.

Yes of course we should be concerned about the welfare of all horses. (I disagree with you btw that there isn't poverty in UK horse racing - try saying that to a stable lad or lass or a struggling jockey! - but that's a different argument.) I fundamentally disagree with you that horse racing should be included in your "cruelty spectrum". UK horse racing is one of the most regulated animal activities in the world! Not all horses are suited to loafing in a field. Some are, but some are not, especially spirited thoroughbreds! And some of those are suited to racing but the few that are not, do not do well, and therefore go on to do something else (ie Mad Moose). It's about the welfare of the individual horse.

For those that are interested have a look at the routine of a race horse in one of the UK's trainers yards. Note how they treat the horses as individuals - ie some are early risers and some are not - just like people. Also note around 11 am and 4pm when the horses have breaks in the paddocks and boxes.
here. NB remember a thoroughbred in training only goes to the race track every 30 days or so. And jumps horses (which are the ones I know about) have a long summer break in the paddock.

@Saucyjane
Beer - but that's as patronising as saying that all people who are anti hunting know nothing about the countryside.
I didn't say all, I said a lot.

First, you don't know that.
Which is why I didn't say all.

Secondly, people are allowed to have different opinions to you. Just because you can enjoy or live with something doesn't mean that you can lecture other people about it.

So, exactly why, if everyone is entitled to have a different opinion, am I not?! Why can you lecture me on the content of my post because you may disagree? I've given my viewpoint on it as all pp's have, I used an example of other 'sports' horses are used in, with welfare concerns raised, and pointed out that because it's not in the media, doesn't make millions and isn't glamorous, it's ignored largely.
And that's my entire point, it amounts to jumping on a bandwagon IMO. The same as a pp has said about horses they saw in Egypt.
For the record I'm not a fan of racing full stop, I just happen to think there are horses that have a far worse deal around, probably seen every day by some who are disgusted etc by the grand national, and there's no outcry for them.