Syria, Russia and the U.S

[DNAnotGRA]

AIBU to be very concerned about the latest events regarding Syria. It would seem the U.S is hell bent on a hot war in the region, the potential ripple effect would be catastrophic. Trumps tweet reads:

"Russia vows to shoot down any and all missiles fired at Syria. Get ready Russia, because they will be coming, nice and new and “smart!” You shouldn’t be partners with a Gas Killing Animal who kills his people and enjoys it!"

twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/984022625440747520

Heyduggeesflipflop

or maybe other people just have different opinions, have seen information/news not just off BBC, DM, Times, have different experiences, have lived in different countries, are Politics professors, etc. What makes you so sure you are 100% correct?

Also, you seem to be apologising for the USA's actions. Which country has started/been involved in the most wars in the 21st century? Hmm...

You may not like the USA, but since 1945 that country has guaranteed the security of Western Europe - that we have not had another world for the best part of a century is largely down to the USA underwriting nato membership.

Russia by contrast is ruthless and cynical.

But patronise away - as I say you could always move to Russia if your loathing of the west is so compelling...

but since 1945 that country has guaranteed the security of Western Europe

By carpet-bombing the Middle East? Do you not think the USA is equally ruthless and cynical? I'm not really sure how anyone can condone their actions this much given how Libya, Iraq, Egypt has turned out

That's not even conspiratorial, those countries have gone from being liveable to being overrun by ISIS.

Also "you could just move to X" is all very well but not when you have a job, flat, friends, family, etc. That's a bit infantile. Very few people apart from gap-yahs and bachelors in temp jobs can just up and move somewhere whenever they feel like it......

I'd love to teach English in bloody China but I have a job, family, friends, wedding, savings and a furnished fucking flat.

Ah, ad hominem attacks, I see.

My two references to Northern Ireland ate actually completely relevant.

A state was set up by a former colonial power despite the overwhelming sentiment of the whole population of the island, based on the threat of military action on the part of the minority in the north east region. The former colonial power was eventually forced to send an occupying force which waged a dirty war there for several decades. There were border security towers, suspension of habeas corpus, you name it.

The parallels are uncomfortable, of course. It's far easier to paint in big, broad strokes about topics that are a good distance away.

Heyduggeesflipflop

Have to say you do sound like someone who likes the idea of war, especially spilling other peoples blood?

You also seem to be under the illusion the UK is some world military super power and that had we flown a few Tornado's over Syria (in 2013) we would have scared Assad and the Russians away and the new Jihadist rulers would once again preside over a ME secular state?

I think it is reckless to an extreme to fire on Syria with the notion of hitting Putin into line. WW2 was about an existential threat: Hilter was invading the UK. There is nothing like this sort of threat in Syria. If the West go in and start a war with Russia, they will be the provocateurs, not Russia.

I don't believe it will come to that. The big fat orange man in the Oval office is already backtracking. Have you noticed - his tweets are often far worse than his bites.

Flytipper - more revisionism - the uk was not under existential threat when we declared war on hitler in 1939 our allies were.

My point stands - you all crow about the west while enjoying its freedoms and opportunities yet you at the same time tacitly defend some of the most brutish regimes in the neighbourhood.

As I say moral cowardice and a hypocritical stance in the extreme.

Jasjas - and you sound like the kind of wet left winger who will continue to turn the other cheek at almost any provocation.

As an analogy One can see your home being burgled and you helping the crooks load you belongings into their van before they drive off.

If the west is inherently deceitful, proud and a force for the worse as you seem to think it is then why remain a part of it?

Why are you getting so angry with anyone critical of the West and saying "fuck off out of here then"? That's a rather childish argument. People aren't cowards, and I'm not here because of iPads and comforts (which also exist in Asia lol) - I just don't want to leave my fiance, and y'know, moving country is a big deal that you have to agree to together and fit in to your other life plans, partners, kids, etc. Anyway, that's besides the point!

Enjoying your life in a country absolutely does not mean you can't criticise how they conduct themselves on an international stage!

I mean, are you really saying if we live here we can't moan about the government? Isn't that what democracy is all about?

A lot of it is rhetoric and theatre. It should calm down - Russia doesn't want a full scale war, despite their sabre rattling.

Nobody would win that war, nobody.

So the IRA were freedom fighters? And their bombing of innocent civilians in Northern Ireland and mainland Britain was justified because they were fighting to redress an historical injustice perpetrated by an imperialist power?

I'm always confused by the fact that it's only the West who were evil colonialists. What about Russian imperialism? What else was the USSR than an empire? In my lifetime, I can remember attempts by Hungary and Czechoslovakia to free themselves from Russian rule. And the Berlin Wall going up to stop East Germans from leaving it. Don't recall any west Germans being shot for trying to go the other way. But that's all OK because the Russian Empire was 'defensive'.

I don't think we're going to get any further on this thread. There's no point in arguing with those who get their alternative facts from Russia Today, Al Jazeera and Press TV. They live in a world where there is no legitimate Syrian opposition to Assad. The White Helmets are jihadist mercenaries. All gas attacks are due to lawful bombs hitting IS stores of poison gas piled in the basements of blocks of residential buildings, inhabited by women and children who are kept hostage by IS. In cages? To win a propaganda war. Or it didn't happen anyway. The whole thing was staged. What motive could Assad have?

Just like the Skripal poisoning was a false flag. The nerve gas came from Porton Down. Putin had no motive. MI6 has abducted the Skripals. There's no way Yulia would have written that statement. And so on, ad infinitum.

But don't listen to me. I'm just a deluded dupe of the MSM, the Guardian and the state-controlled BBC.

The West lies
Russia lies

Each has their own interest and god help the people caught in the middle

Any one of us has as much influence on their actions as on the movement of the planets- we are no different in this way from serfs in the Middle Ages- they didn’t have a say in geopolitics, and neither do we.

And, ‘if you don’t like it leave’ cuts both ways - I wonder how eager the West-loving jingoistic poster would be to welcome to the UK anyone who takes issue with the regime in their own country.

Heyduggeesflipflop - no, just dont want to lose another family member to a pointless war in a far away country (Afghanistan in my case), that has absolutely nothing to do with us.
Syria and Russia's actions there, offer no security threat to us, indeed, Assad in power ensures there is a buffer between the more extreme Islamist elements and Turkey, one of NATO's largest military powers.

We cannot go around putting the world to rights or do you think we should have attacked China over their claiming of a few Islands in the Pacific?

TBF People like you make me sick, you are more than happy to kill off other peoples sons and daughters, whilst you and yours are safely sat at home, reading the Mail.

Jasjas

I have served in Iraq and Afghanistan. I came back but I appreciate many didn’t.

My point is this - many posters seem to believe that western imperialism = bad, Russian imperialism = ‘false flag/ no choice/ ‘they didn’t start it’ etc etc

I am not saying the west is whiter than white / but even the grey colour it probably really is is better than the aggressive and cynical machinations of the current Russian state. A state which has surrounded Syria with sophisticated air defence systems so other countries cannot interfere.

Does the west care about use of chemical weapons, used with - at the very least - acquiescence of the Russians? Yes I think it genuinely does.

But what it cares about more is the current trend of Russian aggressive foreign policy.

And ref my ‘just leave’ comments. They are philosophical as much as anything else - if you hold the west to represent the very height of deceit and cynicism why would you want to stay in that kind of morally corrupt environment?

The answer is all the moral and physical goods the west has produced over several millennia of cultural history stretching back as far as the Greek and Roman tradition. The rule of law, freedom of speech and, of course more recently , iPads!

well, enjoy cheerleading for blood and death and destruction. if you have ‘served’ anywhere you’ve no doubt got personal experience in dealing it out

Just think, a person could spend their days writing poetry, or learning to play the vuvuzela and with the short time we have on earth there are still yet others who choose to scream for western supremacy and for the murder of others whose names they’ll never know.

Madge

Did that impotent post help?

You imply my service to my country is violent and unnecessary. I don’t choose where I get sent but I can tell you two things first hand:

First that Violence we meet out is proportionate and the minimum necessary

Second that without the military your opportunities to indulge yourself writing poetry and other selfish pastimes might not be possible.

The problem isn’t western decadence - it is people like you who are so used to a soft cosseted existence you don’t have any fire in your belly any more.

You are child’s play to people like putin.

What are munitions made from depleted uranium proportionate to? Or cluster bombs? Yeah, the military help with flood relief, but they do the other things too.

lol that I’m the one with problem because I don’t have a raging hardon for murder

Isn’t there a flag somewhere you could be saluting?

Madge

The uk do not use cluster bombs

Your posts are also frankly disgusting and insulting to the young men and women who serve on behalf of this country around the world

NATO dropped cluster bombs on Yugoslavia in 1999. Maybe the UK wasn’t in NATO at that time?