Repeal the 8th

[SnowWhitesRestingBitchFace]

So DH and I are currently visiting my DF and DStepM in Southern Ireland (where I grew up).

Just answered the door to a couple who are looking for support in the referendum and wanted us to pledge that we would vote no.

No for context I am just 6 weeks away from giving birth to DC3 (so clearly very heavily pregnant) and they still had the audacity to argue with me when I said I didn't agree with them and I supported any woman's right to decide what happens to her body.

They started trying to show me pictures of 10 week old babies in the womb (not necessary obviously in the circumstances) and weren't pleased that I didn't agree with them given that I'm carrying a baby myself.

I'm sorry I don't really have an actual AIBU I just wanted to rant a bit and show support for the people who have to face this absolute shit every day until the referendum. We're going home to the UK on Thursday so I won't have it all thrown in my face anymore but I just think the guilt tripping is horrendous 😞

You can't have it both ways: either they are supporting the church by doing the communion or they are undermining it by not taking it seriously enough. It can't be both.

People not giving a shit about the ceremony but caring about the party is a big step to the whole load of shite dying out. It doesn't just happen overnight, a society slides into it. Not caring about the church is a great sign!

People not giving a shit about the ceremony but caring about the party is a big step to the whole load of shite dying out.

People not signing up for the rubbish in the first place would be a much bigger step to it dying out.

The church are delighted with the 'I'm doing it for cultural reasons' brigade. The figures look great. High numbers getting the sacrament. Higher numbers attending mass during the year because they're forced to. Opportunity to get some doctrine through to the kids that they wouldn't otherwise have.

The only 'cultural' aspect to HC is the party. The doctrinal aspect is really significant through. It underlines the churches teaching on transubstantiation, the sacrifice of Jesus, the importance of purity, especially for the girls . Let's not forget that it's closely associated with First Confession (can you do HC without it? I don't think so) and that's all about how we're in a state of original sin.

The catholic church loves your need for a party, make no mistake.

People not signing up for the rubbish in the first place would be a much bigger step to it dying out

Obviously, but as I said, we don't make giant leaps in one go. It's a slide.

The church are delighted with the 'I'm doing it for cultural reasons' brigade

Are you kidding? They hate it, constantly complain about it.

The only 'cultural' aspect to HC is the party. The doctrinal aspect is really significant through. It underlines the churches teaching on transubstantiation, the sacrifice of Jesus, the importance of purity, especially for the girls hmm. Let's not forget that it's closely associated with First Confession (can you do HC without it? I don't think so) and that's all about how we're in a state of original sin

It isn't significant though, thats the point. Most kids and their parents wouldn't even listen to the shite about transubstantion, they don't know what it means. They don't understand what they hell they are doing, other than wearing a pretty dress and some auld man in a dress droning some crap at them.

You're severely overestimating how much attention anyone pays to the actual ceremony at all. First confession is a joke to the kids, and the adults as well.

Don't kid yourself any of them care. Same for confirmation, the only bit anyone listens to or remembers is picking an extra name.

slieve you sound absolutely deluded to me.

But if you want to believe that boosting church numbers, signing kids up to the sacrament, parading little girls up the aisle in white to signify their purity, providing a captive audience for offensive church teaching is part of some kind of big revolt against the church (that's somehow more effective than not participating) go right ahead.

The mental gymnastics required to sustain that kind of cognitive dissonance must be exhausting.

I don't have a problem with people baptising their children in the Catholic Church, because in many areas they may struggle to get a school place otherwise. We are not in that position, but I know we are lucky.

Communion is a different matter.

Laurie I can only assume you don't understand my very simple point, which in a nutshell is this: people doing churchy shit for non religious reasons is much better than them doing it for religious reasons, even though obviously it would be better if they didn't do it at all.

No cognitive dissonance needed. And go ask a priest, they fucking HATE communion time, floods of people who couldn't give a shiney about the church filling the pews on the three days they have to go and pissing off straight after until the next wedding or funeral.

It’s just so depressing. Posters everywhere of foetuses and no one seems to even be talking about it. I often think of leaving Ireland.

Can I complain anywhere about the graphic posters? they are up by the local primary school, young children have to walk past them on the way to school.

It’s just so depressing. Posters everywhere of foetuses and no one seems to even be talking about it. I often think of leaving Ireland.

I know what you mean but we are in no way unique abortion is a controversial issue no matter what country you go to. I am very glad we are having this referendum and I will be heartbroken if it doesn't go through but as a country I think we are changing and I think we are fast becoming quite progressive scratch the surface of other nations and there is just as much bigotry and misogyny.

There are conversations daily about it on the airwaves I do think it is unusual that it isn't coming up in work conversations etc but I think that is because people hold very personal views on this and no one really wants to be in a position to have to defend that either way with their work colleagues, friends. We all will have our say in the ballot box just make sure you get out and vote, this is going to be very close and every vote really will count.

I had together for yes people canvassing at my door last night. They said things are looking good in Dublin (I'm in Dublin) but they are really struggling in rural areas.

There was a very moving interview yesterday morning on Newstalk with a girl who had to go to Manchester for abortion, it didn't work properly and then she had an awful traumatic time with aftercare here, having to lie etc. I think the yes campaign should focus on those kind of stories, more every day type ones. 'Compassion in a crisis' or something like that.

Theres a popular fb feed called In Her Shoes, with lots of those sort of stories. So many different ways to be adversely impacted by the 8th from cancer treatment stories where it needed to stop to protect the fetus, to stories about travelling for FFA terminations.

Some people were holding an 8ft by 10ft banner showing an aborted foetus and standing by a busy supermarket in my local town on Tuesday afternoon. (I live in Cork).

Passers-by complained to the local guards (police) and they came and asked them to fold it up and move.

Someone quoted a (county council I think) rule whereby you can complain about posters if they are exceptionally graphic and the guards can take them down.

It’s absolutely disgusting.

I was in north Tipp yesterday. Didn't spot one poster.

Saw a proper mad one just now. No picture. Just black background and 'Babies will die' written in white.

My DS said he's seen a picture of a poster (above the 1 in 5 in England/Don't bring this to Ireland poster) that had a down arrow and this is a lie and giving actual stat. Don't know if there's any truth in that being a real poster though.

Haven't seen that one. What's the real stat?

stripy, my sister saw that one in Wexford yesterday

I've seen the 1 in 5 pregnancies end in abortion in England poster, in fact there's loads up around us. The thing is that given the number of Irish women who travel to England, statistically some of those 1 in 5 will be Irish women.

There's nothing to support the 1 in 5.

It's x amount of abortions per 1000 women (pregnant or not)

DS sent me the picture now

This is good to hear :

www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/closer-look-at-poll-figures-makes-clear-eighth-will-be-repealed-1.3467464?mode=amp

StripySocksAndDocs

That's a very clever poster actually, maybe this is why the Yes side were slow in getting theirs up because they wanted poster replying to the No ones