Why are so many pubs closing down?

[Spangles1963]

I was listening to a radio phone-in programme last night about the number of pubs in Britain closing down. Apparently it's an average of 20 per week! Now,I'm not a regular pub visitor nowadays,although I was in my twenties and early thirties (in my mid 50s now).I probably go to a Wetherspoons about once every couple of months these days. But I was shocked to hear this figure quoted. At this rate,there'll be none left within a few years. Just out of interest,I did a tally of how many pubs I could think of in the area I live that have closed down in the last few years. It was 8! Various factors have been blamed for the demise of pubs,from the smoking ban,to the availability of cheap alcohol in supermarkets. What do MNers think is the reason,and has anyone else noticed so many pubs closing down near where they live?

Started with the smoking ban. All these people who want a clean smoke free space got their wish.... then didn’t use it.

Cheap alcohol meant the smokers could just stay at home in comfort.

Personally I think it’s a mixture and a sign of the times. People don’t like to talk face to face anymore, preferring a screen.

Smoking ban and in Scotland the lowering of the drink drive limit.

Smoking ban - I hate smoking but tbh if I go to a pub I can live with it
Prices - cheaper to drink at home
Opening hours - pubs used to open til 11pm and then if you wanted to go to a club you went on after. Now it all seems to blend into one with bars opening later.

Smoking ban and it is very difficult to make any profit as a pub with all the overheads hence why lots of pubs are owned by large companies with huge buying power to lower their overheads.

I think a lot of places don’t really know their target audience or what they are aiming to be which doesn’t help. Some (for whatever reason) charge a rediculous amount for the drinks so people either don’t go there or drink less when they do.

I frequent a couple of places, most of which are “boozers” they have live music on and weekends, quiz nights etc during the week. decent priced drinks and are generally pretty busy but they know their audience.

Agree, it started with the smoking ban, however there are more that are serving food than before, so the quality of the food and real ale makes a difference to their business. It is more pleasant to eat in a smoke free pub so we do that rather than just go for a drink as we used to, and then elsewhere for food.

Pubs that only serve drinks and snacks or awful food will be the ones that lose business, or their leases expire and are not renewed.

If it's a brewery owned pub the landlord will be paying rent plus top shack for drinks before he takes out salaries. As there is also a drop in custom,far fewer pubs are financially viable.

It started way before the smoking ban. But that did seem to put the tin hat on it.

www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/retailandconsumer/11283995/The-real-reasons-for-the-tragic-demise-of-the-British-pub-industry.html

Cost. For the price of 2 large wines my friend and I could probably have bought 2 bottles and got pissed at home.

I think the target audience for pubs is 30+. Younger people don’t tend to frequent pubs ime and choose bars or clubs which are still thriving. I honestly think the price puts most people off as it is soooo much cheaper to buy a case of alcohol or couple of bottles of wine and drink at home.

On the fence about the smoking ban as it hasn’t affected other businesses in the same way and I don’t think anywhere near as many people smoke these days. Plus there are many people drinking now who have no idea what it was like before the smoking ban.

I find it really sad, many pubs were a community who looked out for each other, you could always find a recommendation for a tradesperson in the local pub, sometimes a job, meet up with your neighbours etc.
Yy I think people don’t care so much about meeting face to face anymore & alcohol is expensive in most pubs, smoking ban was the death knell of the local.

The reason is cost of beer usually!

How it works is if you buy a lease to a pub, you have to buy your beer from a certain place. For example Barton’s. So Barton’s sell leases for pubs, or they pay a price to somebody who is about to lease the pub to somebody else, and say you must buy your beer from us or pay a fine.

Fine, you buy your beer from Barton’s, but find that actually it’s really expensive compared to BreweryX ... you’re losing a loooot of money just because you have no choice but to buy Barton’s kegs. It adds up massively in the summer and in the winter it’s usually less busy anyway.
A lot of places don’t just do it on the kegs, some also do spirits and such too.

So anyway, you have to have your price above a certain threshold just to make money... which is far more than peoplw would pay if they just bought some from a supermarket. So people generally don’t spend as much on beer in the pub, and beer is supposed to be the stodge of your income in a pub

exhale

Don’t, my local is like that it’s fantastic and a real little community.

Smoking ban and cost of booze.

The pub I go to the most only opened three years ago and seems to be going strong. They always have a great choice of ale and it’s a friendly place.

A long established pub that I USED to go to weekly as it was near “my hobby” was given up on as it rarely had any ale available when we went in.

There a lots of lovely real ale pubs opening up which is great for this of us who love ale but not for people who drink lager or spirits.

VladmirsPoutine . I quite agree!

Pub tenancies can be ludicrous. The couple who ran a pub I used to frequent had their rent linked to turnover, so the more booze they sold, the more their rent was. They jacked it in.

It's hard to make a good living at it and publicans have to work long hours. They can be taking deliveries at 8.00 am and still clearing up at midnight.

The only pubs that seem to be really thriving are those that do really good food, or have something else going for them, like pubs that have good live music.

Some pubs have made themselves family friendly with 'wacky warehouses' and children's menus. They've turned themselves into restaurants with a bar area basically. They seem to me to be very popular and I can't see them closing down. Traditional pubs that just serve drinks and snacks don't do so well now, the smoking ban and cheaper alcohol in supermarkets have both contributed to their problems, I think.

Pubs that lay on live music or quiz nights have more chance of surviving. They can't just serve alcohol as people can buy it more cheaply at supermarkets.

Beer gardens seem to be a good incentive for smokers as well.

I think a lot of it is the way they have been historically run by the brewery's. Batemans are a classic example of charging a fortune to those running the pubs, if they did well they paid more, so where is the incentive?!
Our local pub was bought by a developer who gutted it, then once gutted applied for change of use for houses, it was refused and has sat empty with rubble pilled up outside it's an absolute eyesore. 3 years later and he's applied AGAIN for change of use, some people have written letters of support for the planning because its an eyesore....so clearly the lesson is, if you don't get what you want, trash it and wait until everyone around you caves. The developer also claims he can't sell it, except the advert doesn't state it's gutted or £150k over the red book valuation. Fighting to get it turned back into a pub, sold or in community ownership is a nightmare in it's current state.
I was talking to another neighbour who claimed pubs are common! So I said I must be common then because from a teen I spent my time in the local pub playing darts, pool and making friends.

The rise of cheap pub meals etc doesn't help and I agree the small traditional village pub probably doesn't work as a model. But individually owned, micro brewery or as a wine/gin bar would do well anywhere. Until ours reopens, we're having a garden crawl and drinking in all the neighbours gardens!!!!!

@LakieLady I agree with this. A lot of the time the only way pubs can stay afloat these days is by doing food and make their money via food for the money they lose via beer etc. It’s really difficult.
A few years ago I got a pub lease as I wanted to give it a go, absolutely beautiful pub with a big garden and a large pond with a river next to it... it was amazing, until reality set in.
Luckily I’m a pretty good cook and hired my friend who’s a chef and I made it work - but in the end it was just too stressful. For the amount of time and effort I put in compared to what I got out of it... it wasn’t worth it.
They absolutely suck the life out of you

Smoking ban
Rise of the cheap chains
Cheap alcohol easily accessible elsewhere
Greater risks for publicans if someone is served underage, drugs are used on the premises etc
Changes in the way we socialise and communicate and live our lives

I don’t know why it is, but I can think of about 8 within a mile of my house which have gone. Dreadful places, many of them, the kind of pub where a female face would elect stares... but it’s still sad to see them removed from the street scene. At least half have been demolished, the rest converted to housing or a supermarket. One which I used to go in a lot as a teenager is now the latter - it’s very odd to think of all the ghosts of the past in that building.... decades worth of deals done, friendships made, romances kindled - the significance of that building to so many lives and it’s now a bloody Tesco. Better than being demolished though.... that’s even sadder.

My older kids and their mates all do the pre drinks thing at home before piling into taxis around 11pm to go to clubs!

We used to have the obligatory pub crawl before ending in a club back in the day!

Sad times.... still, at least when it's pre drinks round ours I can raid the leftovers when they've gone

I think the reason many pubs are struggling now is that their business model depends on food sales, and all mid market restaurants are finding things tough because of over supply.

In general though, I think people are just more likely to entertain themselves at home. People have comfy sofas, Netflix, ready meals and take-aways, wide screen TVs, games consoles, wine/beer/G&T in the fridge. Why bother going to a 'public house'?

We used to go to a dreadful pub called The Kilt in Newmains Lanarkshire before Young Farmers events. This was the late 70s. A vodka and orange was vodka and orange squash nae ice.
www.soul-source.co.uk/forums/topic/122949-anyone-got-any-pics-from-the-kilt/
It's demolished now. Sad times.