Why are so many pubs closing down?

[Spangles1963]

I was listening to a radio phone-in programme last night about the number of pubs in Britain closing down. Apparently it's an average of 20 per week! Now,I'm not a regular pub visitor nowadays,although I was in my twenties and early thirties (in my mid 50s now).I probably go to a Wetherspoons about once every couple of months these days. But I was shocked to hear this figure quoted. At this rate,there'll be none left within a few years. Just out of interest,I did a tally of how many pubs I could think of in the area I live that have closed down in the last few years. It was 8! Various factors have been blamed for the demise of pubs,from the smoking ban,to the availability of cheap alcohol in supermarkets. What do MNers think is the reason,and has anyone else noticed so many pubs closing down near where they live?

The good pubs are still going strong. As pp mentioned ones with live music, quizzes, decent food and nice beer gardens.
We've had three new joints opening round here. One is a cocktail bar, one a craft beer place and one also has a cafe tacked on. All independant and extremely busy.
The last one used to be clicky, they made naff all effort and if you wasn't in the barfly crowd you were ignored so it was a relief when it got new owners.

We use our local pub at least once a week for a drink or two and dinner. We wouldn't have used it if smoking was permitted inside - it's a small pub so no where would be smoke free. It's a proper local pub with a landlady who knows your name, regulars by the bar and plenty of people in and out during the day and evening, and a really busy Sunday carvery. In the summer there is a large outside area so great for those with children or dogs. It's also popular with local walkers as beer to the countryside.

We do worry about what will happen when the landlady retires though.

Too many children running around.

Very expensive drinks.

I agree that it's different factors. In the small area that I used to live, we could do a pub crawl and have eight pubs to choose from, now there are four. The other four pubs were 'working men' type pubs, which we had a great time in, but two warehouses shut in the area and there was a lot of trouble in one with drugs, so they went. They are now shops and a Costa.

The amount of trouble going on with drugs, puts people off. As well as their own finances. Also we don't need to go to a pub to pull anymore, you can use a dating site for that.

I do miss the old pub scene, though.

A number of factors.

Loss of much lunchtime trade when factories with shift work ended, and then no alcohol policies for many companies. So overheads spread over a shorter period of time.
Cheap supermarket booze (something I would end if my choice).
The end of tied houses (ironic as it was intended to increase choice).
Football on tv brought people in, and then Sky hiked the price up to pubs, so some pubs that could afford to continue.
Property prices (so you convert to houses or flats in some cases).
Smoking ban (sadly as I like this).
The 'big night out', so people travel to the nearest big town, or to an event, instead of visiting a local pub.
Music licensing laws changing, i think in the nineties (so the pub music circuit in London has shrunk, for example).
Business rates increasing.

A lot near us changed to wine bars, they thought that they should make all pubs female friendly, as so many wee seen as predominantly male environments

I think this then changed the dynamic of all lads out for beer on a Friday to couples out for a few before food and home.

All the above plus, i'm sure, the general change in attitude towards drink driving. When you put this together with the squeeze on our wallets, the price of taxis, and the decline in bus services in many places it adds up.

Everything PPs have mentioned. Also a lovely pub I’ve been going to for years, always packed, is closing down soon because it’s going to be turned into expensive apartments like lots of other places in London.

Because there's more to do and alcohol is less of a focal point of social lives. When I was a teenager the options were pretty limited - listen to music, get pissed. Eating out wasn't really A Thing unless you wanted scampi or chicken in a basket or a day old cheese and onion roll. In my early twenties I couldn't imagine a Friday or Saturday night not in the pub. These days younger people are often very focussed on fitness and their looks, sport, gaming, social media. There's just other, better options now.

1. Smoking ban
2. Cost of drinks
3. No longer acceptable to leave children home alone
4. Drink driving is more frowned upon
5. Why would I pay a fortune to sit on uncomfortable chairs for a night in the pub when I can buy a bottle of wine in the supermarket and invite my friends over.
6. People generally drink less
7. Its no longer seen as acceptable for men to be in the pub after work everynight whilst the women stay home with the children.

8.pubs around here are seen as rough, no one wants to go into them

1. If there is music its nearly always too loud to have a conversation

10. Pub toilets are nearly always grim 11. Have you seen how much a taxi is these days.

Night in pub with baby sitter, food, taxi home it easily runs to well over £60-70
Night at home £15 with wine take away and friends

i think the advance of the internet and a lot of things being online. not needing the pub to meet people. not so much of a focal point of a community. drinks are very expensive even in cheaper places. bought a lemonade with orange squash in it, £2.50 or something similar. that was for a small.

A local round home that struggled and finally shut after the smoking ban reopened 7 years ago and has thrived.

It seems to have these things going for it:

1. Owned by a small brewery with a range of their ok priced beers - lager included (still more expensive than a shop)
2. Open to families and dogs
3. Simple but modern pub food menu (eg ‘dogs and fries’ and visiting pizza stall/ vintage ice cream van
4. Back room for parties and community stuff
5. Backroom for culty/folky Bands
6. Social media
7. Right in the middle of housing - so people can walk there and back

It might sound like some people’s idea of a nightmare (kids everywhere) but it’s jammed packed and going strong and the older pub couldn’t manage

It all started with the 2008 recession. Suddenly people were looking really hard at where their money was going because a lot of people lost their jobs or went on short time etc. and the first thing they cut down on was non essentials. I think this started the rot and then it just became less fashionable to go to pub. I lived in the local boozer in my late teens and early twenties and went quite regularly in my thirties and forties but people of that age barely think about setting foot in an actual pub as such now as they just don't get as much for their money as they do in clubs and bars with deals etc.
Good pubs that do good food will always do OK. We are in the middle of a triangle of three pubs. One has shut down after trying to be a gastro pub and failing miserably but it had the loveliest building. The other two are damp miserable places with grumpy landlords and I would rather eat my own hands off than go in either. I can't see me going to a pub any time in the next 18 months.

Cost of tenancies (driven by rising property values) vs reducing income caused by:
Drink driving compliance - people dont want to drive to a pub and not drink when they get there
Low cost and high availaibility of alcohol in the off trade
Increasing acceptability of drinking at home
Aging population - younger people use pubs more
Much better entertainment at home on telly than there was in the past
More accessible social/leisure opportunities
Healthy living
General costs of employing staff, hygiene compliance, business rates, heat and power

I dont buy the smoking ban thing - people didnt go to pubs to smoke, they went to drink and get a bit of social life

There is still room for some pubs, just not as many as there used to be. Successful ones seem to have picked a definite thing to focus on - round here the ones you can walk to do good beer, or sports, or very family friendly, or are very cheap, or something to make them different. Ones you have to drive to do good food.

I think the target audience for pubs is 30+. Younger people don’t tend to frequent pubs ime and choose bars or clubs which are still thriving.

^i agree. I don’t know anyone under 45 that visits pubs

Working people don’t drink at lunchtime any more, and pubs struggle for lunchtime trade because there is so much competition for the non alcoholic lunch market from supermarkets, coffee chains etc. So they have to rely on their evening trade to make a profit.

Pretty much what Sofabitch said!

Also worth noting, the smoking ban keeps getting blamed, but people are smoking less, particularly in middle class areas. The idea there are masses of smokers drinking at home rather than in the pub rather persumes the same level of smokers as there were in the late 90s. Those of us who were teens in the 90s were the first lot to not start smoking in large numbers.

I do think it's the change to culture around drink driving and men being expected to be involved more with parenting - it's not ok for most fathers to spend an hour or so in the pub after work most nights, rather than come home and get involved with family life anymore. People still go for the big nights out - although less frequently and are more likely to spend their money on meals than just drinking - but the small, 'community' pubs that are closing down are the ones who were kept ticking over by lots of people (mainly men) having just one or two pints frequently.

In the past 2 years, on my local high street alone, 6 new pubs have opened.

One is Wetherspoons, one is a pub that had been empty for 6 years and has now been refurbed as a bar/restaurant, and the other 4 are micro pubs.

All of them are doing extremely well.

I think 12 years passing is enough time for it not to be a smoking ban which kills pubs.

I would blame the brewerys. I know people who managed pubs for a living and the amount the landlords had to pay the brewery was extortionate. You couldn’t make a decent living let along a successful pub. So in part it’s that too.

I think people like to go out to eat rather than just drink so if you're just a pub with a big tv screen showing sports then you will struggle.

Obviously there are areas where they will thrive especially on the weekends but around where I live it's all about the food and family areas. Even the older pubs have had to up their game and offer coffees, lunches Sunday roast etc during the day.

inability to innovate. Times have changed but pubs aren't changing or at least lots aren't .Has anyone mentioned the trend towards people drinking less alcohol? Yet what soft drinks or low/ no alcohol options do most pubs serve? Bugger all except fruit juice , coke , lemonade and soda water.

There is lots pubs could do to make themselves more attractive. None of my friends mind going outside for a fag but the price of drinks is a real issue therefore pubs have to be value added or what's the point? I know plenty of young people who go to pubs but it's usually in connection with a gig happening in there or a pub quiz that appeals to them or a range of board games or video games or pub grub they actually want .

There's a fantastic pub near us. Real pub, with a superstructure Hotel, fab food. Best place, on the high street. Bands, everyone I know aged 20-50 loves it. But it's so expensive.

I think when all the pubs are gone, and we lose yet another part of British culture and society, it will be a real shame and we'll regret it because it will be a real loss.

All the reasons PP have said.

It’s much less acceptable now for men to go out leaving the mum at home with the kids.

It’s also much more acceptable to drink everyday at home.

actually thinking again - there were very few coffee shops and cafes near me growing up. There were more formal tea rooms, but not very relaxed, and a bit posh.

Growing up, my Mum and Dad wouldn't go for a coffee or tea when out in the day when we were younger, you waited until you got home, because the fancy tea rooms were a bit of a faff - they wouldn't meet a friend for coffee/tea. I regularly go for a coffee with someone, if DH is having a chat with his boss off site, they don't go to the pub, but a coffee shop.

We are still happy to go somewhere and have a drink, paying more for it than it would cost at home, to sit in a comfy enviornment and have a chat, meet friends etc, but it's not pubs but coffee shops our generation of middle aged people are chosing to go to.

I think it's when it became unacceptable to leave the kids in the car