Why are so many pubs closing down?

[Spangles1963]

I was listening to a radio phone-in programme last night about the number of pubs in Britain closing down. Apparently it's an average of 20 per week! Now,I'm not a regular pub visitor nowadays,although I was in my twenties and early thirties (in my mid 50s now).I probably go to a Wetherspoons about once every couple of months these days. But I was shocked to hear this figure quoted. At this rate,there'll be none left within a few years. Just out of interest,I did a tally of how many pubs I could think of in the area I live that have closed down in the last few years. It was 8! Various factors have been blamed for the demise of pubs,from the smoking ban,to the availability of cheap alcohol in supermarkets. What do MNers think is the reason,and has anyone else noticed so many pubs closing down near where they live?

Flaskfan - round here men wanting to hide from their wives go to the gym now.... but more likely, men who opt out of family life end up divorced.

I agree with the culture change, they are a good place to socialise for people on their own, to find jobs, find a bloke to do a job. etc., so it would be a shame if the pub was no more. A lot of these jobs finding issues, odd job bloke, are now on social media, which does cut out the few that dont use it. Presumably the local pub still has the regulars but the pub needs more than that - they need the families, the beer garden, the meals, the bands, anything that bring in the punters. A big ask

if the men who opt out of family life are now divorced, arent they still in the pub?

People say the smoking ban is partly to blame, but one of the pubs in my old village (there are 2 there) has defied the smoking ban from the start.

So there is one smoking pub and one no-smoking pub.

Both are struggling and both did a very good trade a decade ago.

On Saturdays you couldn't get in the door of either pub and now it's like weekday evenings used to be. Often weekday evenings there's just 4 of us in.

The only reason both survive is because they both do food, but different markets (one has a chippy, the other has sitdown food).

It's just people don't want to socialise that way any more.

why not? why dont you want a chat with a stranger in the pub, or make a new friend?

I go to our local about once every few months. It's a nice village pub but very expensive for a round of drinks. Ours not their faults, the overheads and brewery prices are shocking. The poor landlord and his wife are really struggling to make a living.
They have diversified into a b&b and do nice food, but the breweries charge their tenants far too much for the drinks.

Thing is, where I grew up, it was expected that men would go to the pub-he'd been working all day, he deserved it. His missus might be out at the weekend. My dad still does it.

You're right about the family avoiders-I thought that after i posted. They now have 'hobbies' they think will make them look like Tom Hardy and co!

Its been happening since before the recession. DH used to work with pubs and mostly a particular brewery/pub chain. As others have said, the chain made it very hard for any licensee to make a profit. Often the landlord/landlady didn't have any financial experience just decided they had spent lots of time in pubs so they could run a pub. People disappearing and sticking the keys back through the door was quite common. The only pubs that made money were ones that weren't owned by a brewery and were well established, or ones that diversified successfully into good food or accommodation as well as drinks.

I would be amazed if its the smoking ban. Out of all the people I know, and I meet a lot of people at work, I know 1 person who smokes. I can't imagine I am particularly unusual.

As a big pub enthusiast (and CAMRA member!), while it is sad to see pubs close, around me it has been really noticeable how many of the casualties (with a few notable exceptions) have been due to management that either can't or won't move with the times. It's not 1982, and pubs need to have much bigger ranges of products (I've noticed far, far fewer people drinking crap lager than 10 years ago - you can't just put on Carlsberg and assume people will drink it!), a welcoming, and non-cliquey, atmosphere (if you can't go to the bar without being glowered at by the four regulars and the landlord then most people will be put off), and, yes, you probably do need to do good food (though I know some very successful ones that don't). They also need to have some form of online presence - it's surprising how many don't even make it possible to find their opening times online; that really puts younger people, in particular, off - and to be imaginative with quiz nights etc. to get people through the door. A lot of the places that have shut seem to have been working on the assumption that there will always be a market for what they offered and so they never needed to change anything - that turned out not to be true.

I don’t know any young people who go to pubs anymore. They all drink at home and go out late instead to save money.
People my age don’t want to drive somewhere you then can’t drink in or go to town centre pubs that are so loud you can’t hear yourself think - I’ve sat in half empty pubs with music blaring away, ridiculous. Instead you meet friends in coffee shops.

I remember a pub near MIL closed and she ranted it was because of the smoking ban and I pointed out it was £3.50 a pint (10 years ago). Who would pay that in an area frequented by students/old men.

Our local is thriving but that’s because it’s kid and dog friendly, does food. It’s not a go and get p@ssed kind of place and we’ll have a drink or two with food but rarely go to ‘drink’ there. In fact we rarely go anywhere to ‘drink’ - we go to a quiz, go for music, maybe go for a birthday but the days of post work drinks etc. Seen to be declining - people are much more health conscious I reckon about Alcohol.

The rural vs city aspect is hard for me to judge personally because my experience of pubs in West London was that the popular ones were busy most evenings and heaving with people on a Saturday. However that was 80s and 90s and a lot of people were still dicing with death by driving home over the limit so they didn't have to use public transport or pay for a taxi and it was more normal for men to be out for a pint a lot more than women (DF and his mates used to do just that. Even once i was grown up DM wouldn't join him).

I moved to a very rural area in 2000 and our village pub was dying on it's arse even back then. It limps along now - it's privately owned and hasn't changed in 18 years out of fear of losing it's regulars. They mostly seem to be in their 70s and 80s now so i'm not sure this is a good long term business plan! The youngsters in this village drink at home before pilling into a few multi seater taxis which run form here to get into town. They share the cost, works out about 3 quid each. They go straight into the clubs in town and then get back the same way in the early hours. Pub doesn't get a look in.

DH and i just want to have a cheap drink and take away at home at the weekend. Neither of us are particularly social creatures any more though. So maybe not good case studies when it comes to use of the pub

Our local is thriving but that’s because it’s kid and dog friendly, does food. It’s not a go and get p@ssed kind of place and we’ll have a drink or two with food but rarely go to ‘drink’ there. In fact we rarely go anywhere to ‘drink’ - we go to a quiz, go for music, maybe go for a birthday but the days of post work drinks etc. Seen to be declining - people are much more health conscious I reckon about Alcohol.
Same with a few of our local ones.

Our immediate locals:
1 has closed because it was a mans-man hide from your wife and watch the footie and then walk to the bookies pub.
1 is like one of those mans man pubs and everu time i go past it looks like half a dozen men perched on stools. Place looks a dump too.

Best ones near me have good food, nice atmosphere (you can go there with friends and sit and chat all night), sometimes have quiz nights etc. The culture isn't about go to the pub and get pissed

We had an independent pub with its own micro brewery open, thats doing well. My DS works in a pub kitchen at weekends that is always packed, has amazing food and has a quiz night.

I find big pubs they were dubbed drinking barns have shut down. I frequented them as a student in the 1990's. Now their audience liked cheap booze, they were pretty soulless. The couple in our town shut down.

I rarely drunk now, last three times I gave been to a pub of those twice it was for dinner.

Auto correct errors should read drink and have.

It would have been the only place to socialize years ago but now people have more choices. More health conscious as well why spend your wage in a pub when you can head off for a weekend somewhere nice

coffeeorsleep The last place I lived was an estate, no pub on the doorstep, but a half hour walk. I'd say I'd go there Fridays and Saturday evenings but every other weekend when the kids were at their Dads, for work we'd have a lunch break out to different pubs but around once a fortnight.
Prior to that the village I grew up in had 2 pubs, I wouldn't go to either because my parents drank there, so went to the local town - every Wednesday, Friday and Saturday on a Friday night we'd all bundle into a taxi to the clubs.
The more I talk the more I realise how much I miss having a local!

Just thinking; we have a fair few 'gastro pubs' round here. Famous name chefs sort of thing. They're usually quite busy. Both with people at the bar and going in for the food (if you don't mind booking 8 months in advance!). Locals use them and people drive from a long way away to visit.

It's the good old spit and sawdust local village pubs which are the ones which are deserted most of the time.

Maybe round here it's not lack of cash then, just people being much more discerning about where they go to spend it?

It's a big and fascinating subject isn't it? :)

Smoking ban for sure.

I've know my IL over 20s years. When I first met them FIL was out three times a week drinking a few pints every time and MIL at least twice a week.

Over time the local pubs have shut - starting a cycle of less choice so out less often and now FIL goes out maybe once a week to a pub and has a few halves rather than pints.

They still go out cinema, days out with friends and lots of meals often in pubs but not out drinking and while they still drink at home that’s decreased as well.

We were in a pub having food recently and there was a huge group or early 20s most were drinking soft drinks and few you weren't most didn’t drink up their beer when it got time for them to all leave – something I’d only seen on TV before that.

So I can see beer drinking has deceased. Though a few round us have closed that did decent meals and had an apparently good trade.

However pop up micro brewery in shops and front rooms are very popular where IL are – DH says they are like old pubs with no loud music just good beer and conversations with people. So perhaps the pubs are just getting the atmosphere wrong.

Me and DH go to several pubs a lot.
One does tapas and coffee, has a lovely beer garden by the river which is dog friendly so we can walk there with our dogs.
One has bands/live music and we meet up with a crowd of friends once a fortnight or so.
One has bands but also a DJ who plays rock indie punk music, beer festivals, quizzes and does curry night/pie night/Sunday roast.
A couple more that we walk to with friends on a sunny evening. We occasionally drink at home but we go out for the social side and music.
Our friends own a pub near a university and it is packed every night, so young people do still go out drinking at least until they start saving for a house deposit.

I went into a Wetherspoons once. No atmosphere and cold. Shit food.

Agree some are bloody awful but our local 'spoons is great. Child-friendly and as a woman I'd feel safe going in alone.

Our local pub is the kind of place that people stare as soon as you go in, and not in a friendly way. The women's toilets are always nice and clean though as it's populated by men. I'm.amazed they keep going.

Our local pub closed down mostly because the costs. There are repairs needed to the cellar and roof which are about £100k. Whoever takes on the tenancy is expected to pay this but have no stake in the building.

I'm surprised people link it to the smoking ban actually.
If you stop going somewhere you enjoy because you've been told you can't pollute the air in everyone else's lungs so should step outside that's actually quite sad.

Smoking in your 20s/30s seems to very much be a minority thing (at least in my circles). I think attitudes to smoking and drinking has changed over time. In my group there's a few teatotal people, quite a few of us rarely drink and almost nobody drinks to get drunk. People are more health conscious in terms of fitness & health i think.