Anti Brexit - who in the hell do I vote for?

[Efferlunt]

I’m always voted and take it seriously as a civic duty but, for the first time ever, aibu not to bother at the locals this May?

Tories seem intent on a ruinous Brexit that will leave us downing in cheap inports of chlorinated chicken, Labour doing nothing to stop them as they seem to think Brexit is a change to build a socialist paradise. Lib Dems are an irrelevance now as even fewer people vote for them.

Surely I can’t be the only person to feel like this? Where is the stop Brexit party and why is no one demanding one?

Biber Are you British?

Biber Are you British?

Yes, why?

There are sound cultural, economic and educational reasons to stay in the EU not least to ensure a stable and peaceful Europe but imo not those you ve listed.

I don't want to pick on you jasjas1973 but even if you disagree with the rest of Biber's points, you must have missed To risk all that what achieved by the Good Friday Agreement being undone

If we Brexit, we will see the return of a visible border between NI and the Republic.

This
is
a terrible
outcome

I know it's old news, but 78.2% of Derry (/Londonderry), which sits on the border, voted to Remain.

Why the Irish border brexit problem cannot be fixed www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2018/03/29/disaster-road-the-brexit-irish-border-plan-and-why-it-won-t

@Anlaf
No you are not picking on me!

GFA ? The IRA surrendered most if not all their weapons, the hardcore terrorists are old and tbh there is no Libya arming them or American money funding it all for the IRA to become the force it once was, a bit like the British army, we could nt flood the place with troops etc as per the 70s and 80s, haven't the numbers anymore.

i believe the border will basically go unchecked, there is now a m/way straddling it, with no sign of any customs area being built or proposed.

The UK should stay in the EU because we are a small player on the world stage and are up against the likes of Asia/China/US even Russia and we need strength in numbers to negotiate the best possible terms with these players, be it trade, environmental, diplomatic also, Europe is an unstable place, its history over the last several 100 years is all about war, the UK leaving is going to destabilise Europe, especially as it looks we may well not be so badly off as first thought, that is going to embolden the far right.

If we Brexit, we will see the return of a visible border between NI and the Republic. This is a terrible outcome.

I wholeheartedly agree with you Anlaf speaking as someone born and raised in NI.

But I'm having to come to terms with leavers not giving a fuck about this. They neither know nor care much about the situation. They have no answers and aren't motivated to find any.

They seem to think that remainers are only using the border as a bargaining chip. If violence returns, presumably they don't think it will effect them and what they're most concerned about is 'winning' the argument and pushing brexit through (at any cost).

It's depressing beyond belief.

Really interesting thread

I can totally understand everyone's comments re not voting...but my mother would kill me if I wasted my vote, my vote that our suffragette great mothers fought and died for

So, I'm going for an anti Brexit tactical vote. So LibDem or Green. It's the only way to send a clear message to Tories & Labour that I want we, the people, to have the final say on the Brexit Deal. The final deal will not be as good as the one we have currently and most definitely it will not deliver any of the promises of The Leave Campaign..

I have met so many Leavers who regret their vote and want a chance to put things right. The local elections give us a chance to show the main parties our anger & that we want a #FinalSay

Sorry, but Brexit does not have to happen. Democracy means one can change one’s mind. One vote, nearly two years ago, based on little info and many lies, in an advisory Referendum is not a done deal. In the meantime, we know Brexitreality is not as simple as we were made to believe. The economy is suffering already, we are not getting more control but losing influence. Poor are hit most and rich tax avoiders win. Right until 28 March 2019, we can say: Stop. We want to stay in the EU after all. Austerity, inequality and government failures in the UK caused our issues. Membership is the only way we can reform the EU. We need it more than they need us. Especially now with Russia playing dirty and interfering in our social media and the referendum!
What can we do to bring this about? Write to our MPs. Vote ProEU parties only in local elections to send a message to Westminster. Join a remain local group. Talk to people about why think so or why we have changed our minds.

Many of us haven't changed our minds though asinine, and would vote leave again in a heartbeat.

Sadly Brexit does have to happen. Imagine the stink Leavers would make if they had lost by the margin we lost. But we lost. Doesn't stop me being dragged kicking and screaming out of the EU but we do have to Leave.

We only have to leave politically though.

At the moment I don't think public opinion has moved enough to make remaining a political possibility.

But the only way anyone can even hope to show politicians that public opinion is moving is through who we vote for, along with writing to MPs, campaigning, signing petitions etc.

So unless there is a massive shift from Conservatives and Labour to the LibDems at the next local elections will the hard core remainers admit most people dont want to reverse the referendum?

Vote for any anti brexit party , green , lib Dem , renew or snp if you are in Scotland. I still think Labour are our best bet down the road but they need to get the message to change their policy in Brexit. They will not win a GE as it stands

Labour doing nothing to stop them as they seem to think Brexit is a change to build a socialist paradise

This sounds like pure Daily Mail-style knee-jerk reaction rather than anything based on actual fact.

Bit late for that now isn't it? As for the cheap chicken if you don't like it don't buy it. I am sure that a lot of people less privileged than you will be appreciative of the affordable meat. That's the point of free trade, to make sure that everyone can buy what they want not what some lower middle class person thinks everyone should buy.

@csibike I suggest you read up on eu law. You seen to have the wrong end of the stick.

@ DairyisClosed

Bit late for that now isn't it? As for the cheap chicken if you don't like it don't buy it. I am sure that a lot of people less privileged than you will be appreciative of the affordable meat. That's the point of free trade, to make sure that everyone can buy what they want not what some lower middle class person thinks everyone should buy.

It's a bit more complicated. Cost of living is going up, not coming down, and choice won't be so easy.

"First, we’ll have to take the chlorinated chicken, the genetically modified wheat, cloned meat and beef stuffed full of hormones – or we’ll be stuffed if we want to sell the Americans our steel, Range Rovers, Jaguars, Rolls-Royce aero engines, armaments, banking and other services. With an inevitable loss of trade and markets in Europe, we will have little choice – if we wish to retain living standards – but to submit to what the US demands.

But even if we agree to import all this stuff, we don’t have to buy it, do we (you may ask)? We can just buy British or “farm assured”, surely?

Yes and no. The US objects to COOL (“Country of Origin Labelling”) as it can refer to “country of birth, fattening, and slaughter of animals; country of milking, packaging, or processing for dairy products; and country of cultivation and processing for wheat”.

So post-Brexit, chances are you’ll be shopping blind, unable to avoid genetically modified American “cheddar”, even if you wanted to."

.... "the Americans would also demand that we abolish the geographic protections we’d like to preserve, including with the EU. I can’t myself object to Californian ‘Champagne’, or a Minnesota Melton Mowbray Pork Pie, or a Connecticut Cornish Pasty, but I think Nigel Farage or Jacob Rees-Mogg might not want to swallow those."

uk.news.yahoo.com/chlorinated-chicken-may-least-worries-174232843.html

If we allow in cheap, possibly sub standard food, then we ll ruin our own farming industry and ensure stringent border checks in/out of the EU, they do not want this stuff.
This will mean the end of any friction-less border as 40% or more of our trade heads into Euroland, & will cause the problems brexitiers say will not happen....so be careful what you wish for.

There are three things that are important to me at the moment - Brexit, schools funding and air quality. Because of their strong record on all three of those issues (locally and nationally) I will be voting Lib Dem on 3rd May.

If we allow in cheap, possibly sub standard food, then we ll ruin our own farming industry and ensure stringent border checks in/out of the EU, they do not want this stuff.

DEFRA have already said they are expecting 25% of farms to go bust. Making us even more reliant on imports.

This is the LibDem problem. A ton of totally rational people won't vote for them because "it won't count". If we could over it, It might count. Not a LibDem member but crikey these people seem to be the only ones tallking progression or change.

DEFRA have already said they are expecting 25% of farms to go bust. Making us even more reliant on imports

I know a lot of farmers and their employees, they were very sure voting leave was a great idea, they are all rather worried now, they forgot what a fantastic export market the EU is and they want continuing protection from cheaper food imports.
Its not just a few farms, its the shops/PO's/Schools, farm equipment businesses and employment they give poorer rural areas BUT i (and many others) did try and explain this before and they didnt listen, so have only themselves to blame.

I also know a lot of farmers who voted Leave and they have been researching further diversification, things the current EU regs make very complicated. Favourite partners round here seem to be Canada and New Zealand.

There is some fear and trepidation, obviously, but also lots of discussion, talk of cooperative working, more work exchanges etc. Then again, we also have a large Ag college/Uni here, maybe that is having an effect!

www.ft.com/content/e33d5f12-f462-11e7-8715-e94187b3017e

The pros and cons in here seem to be the main talking points round here - that and who could sneak up and grab The Goviot with a baling machine. They seem to dislike him almost as much as we teacher do