In not really liking my mum singing Christian songs to my baby?

[theUrbanDryad]

I probably am being unreasonable, but i hate the way my mum sings Christian songs to my baby. he's only 4 months, so unlikely to be indoctrinated anytime soon, but i have made it clear to her on a couple of occasions that we won't be bringing up ds in a Christian faith or in any religion at all.

the problem is that by her own admission, she is on a "mission" to convert people. which includes me, dh and ds. i grew up really resenting my strict Christian upbringing and i don't want ds to do the same, especially since neither me or dh are Christian. also, when i realised how much of a swizz the whole Christianity thing was (when i was about 16) it took me a long time to trust other things my mum said, as after all if she was wrong on this major thing, she could easliy be wrong in other things too. i want ds to trust his grandmother and not have his childhood troubled like mine was.

dh and i have already agreed that if he wants to find out about religion when he's older then we will be fine with that, but i would like him to do it on his own terms, and not have it rammed down his throat from birth, however lovingly.

You're such a kiss'n'tell girl, Fio....

wise advice Blu. the problem with many christian songs [particularly happy clappy] is that they are so toe curling and moronic musically. However there are some beautiful religious songs too and i wouldn't mind them getting sung to my ds - a lot of church music is just great music - doesn't really indoctrinate i think - think of all those cathedral choir boys who turn into raving hard drinking athiests [i'm not including Aled Jones btw]

my mum used to sing some beautiful religious music to me when i was a kid - wish she was around to do the same to ds...

Theurbandryad - my dd's father is Jewish by faith (he's somewhat lapsed).

quite right ruty.
I went to church (christening) on |Sunday and I was appalled by the quality of the modern hymns. I sing a lot of sacred music, which is just sublime, but frankly the kind of stuff sung in churches every sundry is banal drivel
imo

My mother has always been appalled by my not baptising DD and DS. Once, at a church wedding, DD had a temper tantrum and I had to take her outside.... My mum said 'well, of course she will scream in a church if she hasn't been christened'

YABU. Some christian songs are really quite lovely and certainly no worse than a lot of the horribly depressing and violent traditional children's rhymes and songs. I agree with Blu, pick your battles. And I think you can be fairly confident that your ds is not going to be indoctrinated by one grandparent singing him religious songs, or even later on taking him to church.

My parents are both scientists and although my mother was brought up Catholic and my father was brought up Jewish, they are both atheists and brought us up that way. However, that didn't stop my mother from letting our devoutly Catholic nanny take my brother and I to church. Or stop us from celebrating Christmas, Chanukah and whatever else was going at the time while we were growing up. Both my brother and I are still atheists. Although, funnily enough, I am now sending my dd (4) to a Jewish nursery as it happened to be a really good one that was recommended by my boss who sent his daughter there even though they aren't Jewish and in fact now sends their daughter to a Jesuit primary school. Recently my dd tried to tell me that God created everything, including the earth, but before I could think up a respectful way of disputing her theories, ds (6) told her that that was ridiculous because everyone knows that the earth was created by the Big Bang (not a theory he has yet been taught at school, by the way). Dd has since conceded that the Big Bang may have created the earth, but that God created the houses and cars. All of this is to say that I think that my children will be more tolerant understanding people by being exposed to a variety of different religions and thoughts and because I have given them the exposure and freedom to learn about things before they make up their mind. And really there are worse things that a child can do than decide that they believe in God or want to follow a religion other than the one their parents believe (or not) in.

Also, isn't it possible that your mother truly believes that people who aren't good christians will go to hell, and maybe it might be nicer to not constantly remind her that that's what is going to happen to her grandson. I suspect it's unlikely you will deconvert her at this point in her life, so why not humor it and enjoy that fact that you have a loving caring mother in your and your son's life.

Few are more hostile to Christianity than me, but I really don't see how songs at any age are going to make your kid lose the ability to think. One of my favourite songs has always been "Oh happy day", doesn't hurt me.
Very very few blokes take up any idea because their grandma wanted them to.
At a more strategic level, I don't see ignorance as a defence against superstition. That's why religious types want influence over schools so they can foist it on kids without "offensive" disagreement.
Let DC hear about Christianity, you only have to look at it's numerical decline to work out that it's simply not an attractive set of ideas to educated people.
What you don't want is to build it up as some sort of "secrets your parents don't want you to know".

I think anarchy in the UK would be far less offensive - or maybe Too drunk to f**k by the Dead Kennedys.

I mean these religious types - they are all out to get us, you know.

ISWYM, for a while DC's favourite song was "Me and my Monkey" by Robbie Williams , has swearing and references to drugs and whores.
He was 3, I couldn't see that it mattered.

I would recommend avoiding Baa Baa Blacksheep as well due to possible racist connotations.

You could try asking her to sing some gangster rap, all about drug deals and shooting and lets not forget the ho's.
After all you never know what a song like all things bright and beautiful might do to a child's mind do you.

plenty of people perhaps even as intelligent and educated as you would disagree with you DC. Though of course it is the church's fault that most people have completely the wrong idea about christianity. The idea of non christians 'going to hell' is a case in point.

You're not being unreasonable. Of course at the moment he's too little to take anything in, but it's probably best not to let her start any of it. She should respect your wishes on this important subject.

I want to say, oh, bless her, but that's an awful pun.

Don't really think singing to him will indoctrinate him although can see with your background how irritating that would be.

I love singing hymns, myself. Hardley ever go to church, but can belt them out like a good one. Great fun.

All part of the shared commin experience. Rather like being able to quote bits of the bible an poetry.

And interesting that the (very) high church school that my two go to, have had Jewish children singing jewish Hymns (sorry if that is the wrong word for them). My two belt them out. I think it is nice. Oh and Hindu songs when I think about it.

Sorry to go off at a tangent here, but in what way is the national anthem anti-Scottish?

"rebellious Scots to crush"

can't really argue with that

I don't believe in God, but didn't mind that my children did until they were old enough to make up their own minds.

Would you have a problem with your mum singing songs about Santa?

the first song ds ever heard was when he was abut 3 minutes old, and dh was singing "God Save The Queen" (the Sex Pistols version, natch ) because it was the only thing he could think of after a 3 day labour!!

you're all right - i don't think it's going to do any lasting "damage", but it is extremely irritating. but that's my problem, not my mum's or ds'.

oh, and ds actually really enjoys gangsta rap (he quite likes "Cop Killer", by IceT) and has always enjoyed hardcore techno/rave since i was pg with him. i think it is the beat he likes. actually, if you think about the theory behind Baby Mozart - that the very precise structure behind the music somehow has the capability to make your dc more intelligent - then you could say the same about house/techno music. maybe i should market baby Faithless?!

fortyplus - i read that as songs about satan!!

i do find all Christmas music exceptionally irritating also. but oddly quite like O Come All Ye Faithful.

this music malarky isn't as black and white as it seems is it??

If it is upsetting you just tell her

My mother sings irish folk songs to mine - not sure why as we are not irish

we are not religious but know are children may oneday choose to follow a religion and that as there are so many different cultures annd religions it would be helpful for them to have some understanding(i find it interesting too).so we teach them about different religions.i dont agree that our local cp school only teaches christianity ,my children are lucky to learn about other faiths at home,some dont.

It would irritate me as well even though there are some musically lovely superstitious songs. One of the M&T groups we go to keeps having spells of bible-bashing which I don't like: Ds is only 2 so is not going to be harmed by it, I just resent the assumption that it's all right to peddle this crap to kids as though it were factual.

Pointydog, I didn't know that verse. Just looked it up on Google. However, it is NEVER sung now, so I don't think you can really accuse what is sung now as being anti-Scottish.