In not really liking my mum singing Christian songs to my baby?

[theUrbanDryad]

I probably am being unreasonable, but i hate the way my mum sings Christian songs to my baby. he's only 4 months, so unlikely to be indoctrinated anytime soon, but i have made it clear to her on a couple of occasions that we won't be bringing up ds in a Christian faith or in any religion at all.

the problem is that by her own admission, she is on a "mission" to convert people. which includes me, dh and ds. i grew up really resenting my strict Christian upbringing and i don't want ds to do the same, especially since neither me or dh are Christian. also, when i realised how much of a swizz the whole Christianity thing was (when i was about 16) it took me a long time to trust other things my mum said, as after all if she was wrong on this major thing, she could easliy be wrong in other things too. i want ds to trust his grandmother and not have his childhood troubled like mine was.

dh and i have already agreed that if he wants to find out about religion when he's older then we will be fine with that, but i would like him to do it on his own terms, and not have it rammed down his throat from birth, however lovingly.

[yaddayah]

@ all these guerrilla baptisims

[vimfuego]

I prefer the term "drive-by baptisms".

[niceglasses]

Ha Ha, my mum used to sing

'Come and join us
Come and join us
Come and join our happy band'

which is an old Sally Ann fav. She used to bang the tamborine as well. They all loved it. Still sing it now. No sign of impending religiosity though. Think you'll be okay.

[theUrbanDryad]

sorry, but am PSML at some of these responses. esp the DIY baptising. classic! my mum (fortunately) doesn't believe in infact baptism, so i reckon we're ok there.

FWIW - i don't think that singing Christian songs to him at this early stage is going to do him any harm at all - i just don't like it. like i said in the OP it probably is a bit unreasonable, but it makes my skin crawl. it's so happy clappy. brrr....

and Cod - i take your points, but i don't think my mum's likely to be singing the Hallelujah Chorus to him just yet. (i don't think...)

[theUrbanDryad]

infact baptisms???? infant baptism, i meant!

[FrannyandZooey]

"I would love to know how you can indoctrinate a 4 month old by singing to it"

So you reckon she is going to STOP when the child is old enough to understand? Really?

[rowan1971]

Urban - your upbringing obviously feeds in to your having a strong reaction to this stuff, which is completely understandable. If it's really bothering you, then you have to find a way to make her understand that you really don't find it acceptable. She had her turn at indoctrinating her kids; it's up to you to bring up your kids, not her!

[fennel]

My mum is also on a mission to convert my dds, she takes them to church and gets them prayed for specially. I do find this offensive as she knows we are atheists, so she's deliberately going against our views. But generally I let it go, as she doesn't look after them very often.

[theUrbanDryad]

rowan - i know! but it's so difficult getting through to her, because she's on this mission to convert everyone. it's also difficult because she seems to think that Christianity is the norm for most people, and if you're not Christian then you're not normal. or whatever. oh gawd - i dunno!

F&Z - that was kinda my point when i spoke to her. there are lots of songs without Christian themes, personally i sing the national anthem to him, along with anything else that comes into my head at the time because sometimes it's the only way i can get him to sleep, but my mum sings Christian songs to him specifically because they're Christian, not because she's trying to get him to sleep. IYSWIM.

[tortoiseSHELL]

I wouldn't worry about it. They'll probably hear them at school anyway.

My dad takes issue with me taking the children to Sunday School, because of indoctrination. SO the opposite issue really.

[theUrbanDryad]

i don't want her to get into the "habit" of doing it. although that kind of makes singing about Noah's Ark on the same level as using crack....

[Astrophe]

You say that you would be happy for your DS to become a Christian, or other faith, when he is older, so I think its only fair for you to let him learn about all religions.

Afterall, how will he make an informed choice if he knows nothing about any of them?

I think you should use it as a teaching point "Granny believes X...the lady down the street believes Y...", and as he grows older you can encourage his personal invertigations of faith.

You could also teach your son a lot about respect and tolerance by the way to talk about your mothers religion to him.

[theUrbanDryad]

yes, i don't mind that, it's fine, but if he grows up hearing my mum singing Christian songs to him every day (we live round the corner from my parents and he sees my mum most days) then it seems to me that Christianity is getting a head start on all the other religions. i don't want him to grow up intolerant of Christianity (like i did!) but i do want him to learn about them when he is old enough to put them into context. i would rather he learned about them at school, but i know that's a bit unrealistic. and i'm getting ahead of myself...

[docket]

I don't think you're being unreasonable, esp given your own experiences.

[tortoiseSHELL]

What sort of songs do you mean? Because lots of religions use the word 'God' so a song like All things bright and beautiful isn't necessarily pushing Christianity, if that's what you're worried about.

[rowan1971]

The passive-aggressive approach would be to learn a few Muslim/Jewish/Jainist/whatever songs of praise and start singing those whenever she's around...

[rowan1971]

I do think, Urban, that you're attributing too much power to her (because obviously she had a lot of power over you when you were growing up), and hence the situation is winding you up. Her influence over your baby will not be comparable to the influence she had over you, even if she does just live around the corner.

I'm not saying it's not bleeding annoying, it's just that you might feel less powerless about it if you change your prespective slightly.

[Lovecat]

Can you send your mum round to me, UD, if she has such fabby powers of indoctrination? Whilst dd loudly demands 'pears' in her cot at bedtime, she thinks me making the sign of the cross is part of some bizarrely funny actions game and doesn't relate 'pears' at bedtime to 'pears' in church at all (church? that's the funny echoey building where I can make loads of great noises, run up and down the aisles and gurn at all the ancient nuns in the back row!)

[theUrbanDryad]

TortoiseSHELL - the song i'm specifically thinking of is one which goes "Stand up, clap your hands shout thank you Lord, thank you for the world we're living in..." i remember singing it in Sunday School when i was little and i loved it then. ah, the loss of innocence.

where's DC? i would've thought he'd be along by now....

[theUrbanDryad]

Lovecat - i bet the nuns love it! didn't Jesus say to "Suffer the little children unto me, for the kingdom of Heaven belongs to such as these"? (or something - my Scripture is more than a little rusty these days!)

[fluffyanimal]

OK so you sing him the national anthem. Doesn't that start "God Save..."? What's the difference between that and the songs your mum sings?

[theUrbanDryad]

IMO - there is a BIG difference between God and Jesus. i'm probably going to get flamed for this, BUT...

this is (supposedly) a Christian country. our monarch is Church of England, our Prime Minister is ostensibly the same. i think Church of England Christianity is and has been (IMO unfortunately) a part of our country, history and culture for hundreds of years. but the happy-clappy "Jesus Wants Me For A Sunbeam" brigade do my nut, they really do. i'm sorry, but that's just the way i feel. i don't want ds to be brought up in that kind of environment, especially since i have met more homophobic, rascist, intolerant, two-faced and prejudiced people in the Church than i have in "real-life".

i'm more than happy for ds to be taught about Christianity and other religions in its proper context. ie - as part of our culture and history.

like i say, i will probably get flamed, but it's how i feel.

[fluffyanimal]

I think you need to make a distinction between what songs / hymns your mum sings and what version of Christianity she preaches. After all, many trad C of E churches have the occasional trendy tamborine hymn to broaden their appeal. I'd stop worrying about the songs and only worry once he is old enough to understand and she starts telling him that e.g. homosexuals will burn in hell or something (or whatever else she believes). The happy clappiness of the songs may grate with you, but in themselves they are totally harmless.

Jesus was an extremely moderate and all-inclusive person. Too much gets twisted falsely in his name.

Oh and BTW Tony Blair is Catholic i think.

[theUrbanDryad]

oh fluffyanimal i am glad you didn't have a go. i was worrying in case you came back and rahed at me (i'm not very good at rah-ing)

you're absolutely right, and if she didn't sing the happl clappy songs when i wasn't there it wouldn't bother me (cause i wouldn't know) but it really sets my teeth on edge for some reason, which is just as bad and intolerant as saying homosexuals will burn in hell (which my mum doens't believe, btw!)

think you may be right re: Bliar as well.