To be so upset about the way things are in our family: DH, my year old and our baby.

[QueenofmyPrinces]

I have two sons aged 4 and almost 8 months. The age gap is just under 3.5 years.

When the baby came along we had a few jealousy issues for about 6 weeks (but I expected that) but then my eldest started to dote on the baby and was constantly telling everyone how much he loved his big brother.

Fast forward to the last few weeks though and things have deteriorated so rapidly that I could cry about it. Suddenly he’s telling me he doesn’t love his brother anymore, he wished his brother wasn’t here and that his brother is ruining his life.

He’s started being very physically rough with the baby, purposefully pushing him hard, using his feet to roughly push the baby away, hitting him quite hard on his back, kicking him and the other day he even bit the baby leaving teeth marks in his hand. This behaviour has been going on every day for near enough 90% of the day. Our eldest has also started becoming quite defiant, ignoring everything we say to him and deliberately doing things he knows he shouldn’t.

I give him two warnings about his behaviour and if he does it for a third time, which he does about 90% of the time, he gets sent to his room. He’s not bothered though and just starts misbehaving again as soon as he comes out. I’m totally exasperated by it.

He’s normally well behaved for me (plays up more for his dad) and I’m quite calm with him but I admit I’ve lost my temper with him a lot over the last few weeks. My husband has got no patience for it at all and shouts at our eldest our lot, very loudly and harshly, sends him to his room frequently and I don’t like it.

When I ask our eldest why he’s done x, y or z, he just says “Because I did”. I then ask him the question again and he says “Because I’m a naughty boy.” I can’t bear hearing him say that as I know my DH calls him naughty quite frequently so I know my son now believes it. I also tell him that he’s not a naughty boy, he’s a good boy, but that he’s behaving in a way that we can’t allow.

I don’t know if it’s a change in his routine as it’s Easter Holidays over here so he’s been home every day as opposed to in childcare for 30 hours (his free funding) or the fact that as my DH is a teacher he’s been home every day for the last two weeks which he’s just not used to.

If anything is upsetting me the most it’s seeing the breakdown in the relationship between my DH and the eldest as they normally have such a wonderful bond. My eldest now seems to be pulling away from DH (I’m not surprised though) and wants me constantly and tells his dad that he’s on “mommy’s team” and he doesn’t want daddy to be in our team.

My DH was bought up in a very strict household and his dad was a patriarchal figure who cane down hard on any kind of poor behaviour which is where I think my DH gets it from. Throw in the fact my DH is a secondary school teacher and has to be strict and I think his attitude is a result of those factors.

Sometimes I worry DH appears to favour the baby over our eldest and I’ve told him to try and look at things through the eyes of a 4 year old but he doesn’t seem to grasp my point. I also worry though that the eldest think I favour the baby too because like I said, I’ve lost my temper at my eldest too when he’s been purposefully hurting the baby.

I fear I’m rambling now but I just needed to get it out because I’m feeling upset over it constantly.

I just needed to get it out and I’m desperate for some help or advice because it’s all just such a mess.

Yes therapeutic parenting is the way forward with children who have experienced trauma (and a new sibling can be traumatic). Also, if he hurts you or baby, encourage him to repair by SHOWING sorry, not saying it. E. G. He could put cream on baby where he hurt him, or sing him a song to help calm him down.

Reading with interest as I am about to have DC2 and DD1 is 4yrs. She has been getting very anxious and angry about the potential brother/sister coming and we were at our wits end with her behaviour. We decided on a mix of rewards for really good behaviour and naughty step for bad behaviour. She has a reward jar which if she does something good she puts a pom pom in (could be marble, or small balls etc). When the jar is full she gets a treat from a shop - she started off requesting kinder eggs but has now got the hang of the concept and the requests are more costly! She is very proud of her reward jar and shows it off to family when they visit.

When she is naughty (shouting, kicking/punching me, throwing food/toys) we give 1 warning then the naughty step. Or we remove a favourite toy or tv for example.

Her behaviour has dramatically improved since we did the reward jar. When she's calmed down much later in the day I also give her lots of cuddles and attention and make sure I'm doing something just for her (crafts, painting her nails, playing dollies). Admittedly I don't have the baby here with me yet but my goal is to reassure her that mummy is still very much here and we can still do nice things together. It seems to be paying off so far and nursery have noticed she's dramatically improved her behaviour since we started this approach. Might be worth considering?

I have 3.5 years between mine and dd1 was seriously unimpressed with her younger twin sisters. Everyone told me to encourage her to help "fetch nappies" etc but she really had no interest. She does love animals so we got her a bunny (which stays in the house) and that actually made a huge difference (using hindsight here as she's now 10 and adores her sisters - although still finds them frustrating). It also help to reinforce how much dtds were copying her because they loved her.

As a side note, all my dc were hideous the term before they started school. I wanted to have special time that I would remember and cherish before the September they started school but in reality they were tantrum filled weeks I've tried to block out.

I once heard that a child perceives having a sibling the same way a you would perceive your DH saying to you

“ it’s so great having you as my wife, we have fun, we have great sc, you cook me lovely food and make sure the laundry is done. In fact, having you as my wife is so awesome, Ive decided to have another wife. Just think, you two can be best friends, you’ll never be lonely and I shall love you both”

Now imagine how you’d feel, and how you’d react.

Give your eldest child lots of cuddles. Make sure he is getting his share of your attention. (Tricky I know when you have a baby)

I think I’d be tempted to try some bribery. Say things like “baby brother said he thinks we should all go to the park/zoo/soft play today” and “baby brother thinks we should have your favourite for dinner today”

It may help him recognise that baby bro has some advantages. 🤞🏻

We have been through similar since our daughter arrived six months ago. Our three year old son has had patches of anger and hurting her. Advice from health visitor has been to give attention to the baby rather than toddler, calmly telling toddler that we don't hit/bite/squeeze/whatever other type of torture he has devised, and focus on baby. That way his attention seeking behaviour isn't working. Feels a bit odd not chastising but it has worked for us. (At the moment!) She also suggested letting him use a baby doll to change / feed etc but he wasn't interested in that. Also a reward system using cotton wool balls to fill a jam jar, he gets one when good and one can be removed when bad, then gets to pick his reward. So far these are working for us but I have no doubt he will change the game on us again. Good luck getting it sorted OP, it is horrible but they (and you) will get through it xxx

It sounds exhausting. For my kids sending to room would have been way too much at 4 and doing it all the time sounds miserable all round (and clearly isn't working). First stop would be feeding lots of ways to interact positively, then if time out needed, brief and on the sofa where I can see them.

Things I found helped with that age gap: emphasising how much baby admired big brother. Sympathising with how tiresome it was that she went after his toys and finding ways he could play without interference. We had one of those hexagon playpens but opened up as a room divider so DS could have Lego out safely. Or just having his things up on the table. Talking to DD about things she couldn't have until she was big like DS. Making a point of sometimes telling baby DD she had to wait because we were busy with DS. As much as possible physically taking control to prevent bad behaviour in the first place, e.g. frisbee would be out of reach till you're ready to go out. Helping DS find something else to fob DD off with if she had a toy he wanted. She was usually happy to swap whatever it was for a toy car of which we had hundreds.

Unfortunately the baby can’t have food as he is CMPA and weaning has shown him to have a variety of allergies. The only ‘safe’ food he can currently have is brown bread and Weetabix. It’s becsuse he’s so limited on diet that he had to be breast fed frequently.

The frisbee was taken off him. He’s currently in his room for just having hurt the baby but he just keeps coming out before his time is up. The baby is crying for feeding and I am going from one child to the next and failing to meet either of their needs at the moment.

It’s just exasperating.

It sounds as if your ds wants 1-2-1 with you. I appreciate he needs this with his dad too.

I’m glad you’re listening to the advice about positive reinforcement. The first thing I’d do is set up a sticker chart, which you fill up each day with about 5 or so targets. Make one or maybe 2 hard ones and the rest easier. Eg

Be kind to baby (start off with 2 warnings. But any hitting at all he doesn’t get the sticker)
Tidy up toys at the end of the day (don’t do this if it’s too hard, find easier)
Hang up coat and put shoes away
Play alone for x amount of time
Etc

Then decide on the treats he gets for having 10/20/30. Stickers. He can save them up or spend now. Eg 10 some £1 collectible cards like Pokemon, 20 a magazine or go swimming, 30 a trip to the cinema or a new toy costing up to £10 etc.

I would stop now with sending him to his room. It doesn’t give a good message even though he can see you. Confiscating his favourite/new toy never a comfort toy though.

As a side note, all my dc were hideous the term before they started school. I wanted to have special time that I would remember and cherish before the September they started school but in reality they were tantrum filled weeks I've tried to block out.

I second this ^^. I think they are old enough to understand a massive change is coming up.

Oh and when I said confiscate, I mean 24 hours for a small misdemeanour and more for more serious ones.

You haven't responded to the posters who recommended Laura Markham's book/website.

I'm going to recommend them too. She has strategies for exactly the situations you describe. You do have to apply them consistently though and it would help if you and DH looked at them together and came up with a joint plan of action.

You haven't responded to the posters who recommended Laura Markham's book/website.

I’ve been online and ordered two books. One is about dealing with having two children and the other one is Calm Parents, Happy Child or something to that effect.

When the children are both in bed tonight I will be going back through this thread and looking at suggested websites.

I’m now in the kitchen doing all the jobs in there with the baby in his walker. I asked DS1 to come with us and said it would be nice if he did because I like spending time with him but he wasn’t interested. I have also caught him standing on a stool trying to get his hands on the constipated frisbee.

I’ve only read the thread quickly so apologies if this has already been suggested. I think your reward chart is a good idea but could you call it a ‘good behaviour’ chart rather than a ‘good boy’ chart? That way you’re not labelling him as good or bad, but labelling the behaviour instead. And confirming that you love him, DS1, unconditionally but don’t like him hurting his brother.

Instead of just taking the frisbee away as a punishment I'd put it with the pram and say 'I know you're keen to get out and play in the park later, I am too and we'll put it here ready for later. Your brother will love watching you play frisbee, you can show him lots of things at the park, do you want to help me push the buggy?' (Together obviously).

You really need to stop sending him to his room as a punishment. Where does the baby sleep, in his own room or your bedroom?

He sounds like he wants time with you without the baby.

One trick I had that worked was that 30 min that dc showed good behaviour he got pom pom in a jar. Then end of day we counted up pom poms and they exchanged for a reward or could saved up for a big reward. As behaviour improved we moved to an hour then 2 hours etx

Constipated frisbee!

Is your husband the father of both dc? In your title you say "my son, our baby".

It dies sound like your dh is making him feel very bad about himself, so he is seeking the affirmation from you but feels your attention is being diluted by the baby, hence blaming the baby for the way he feels. If dh is not his dad, then it is entirely likely he is more focused on the baby, or just that he finds ds less relaxing and therefore is pulling away from him. It is interesting that ds wants to be on your 'team'. He doesn't sound naughty, he sounds very insecure and I don't think punishment will work as he is seeking any input, positive or negative. Sodding about with a frisbee ensures lots of focus on him, he is desperately attention seeking.

I would stop saying u cant do things because "u need to be back for the baby", or to be quiet so "baby doesnt wake" etc.
In my experience they dont nwed a huge amount of 1 to 1, how about spending time all together more often. Rather then create a division in the family if you know what i mean.Violence toward the baby punished immediatly(would not use sweets to bribe as not good food association personally).
Sending to his room is fine , but include him as mich as possible rest of the day.

I’d go with a double approach here. First, zero tolerance for violence. You make it clear to him that hurting his brother (or You, or his dad) is not acceptable. The first time he does it, you act. Straight in his room, no toys etc in there. Tonne of attention given to the injured Party and none at all to 4yo. At 4 there is no excuse for hurting people, they are plenty old enough to know it’s wrong. If he does it again, next punishment. Tv is taken away, all his sweets, then toys. He can get them back when he’s not hurt his brother for x many days or whatever.

At the same time as this, build in scheduled 1:1 time with him, with both you and DH. So he gets at least an hour every day after school, and more at weekends/holidays. I’d the baby needs feeding every 2 hours (I’ve been there, totally get how hard that is!) then feed and go the second the baby has finished. DH can then give weetabix or brown bread to stretch the time away out to 3 hours. Give 4yo control of what you do together; make it about him, make him feel special. Give him a range of options that can be achieved within your 2-3 hour window.

Re swimming, we go as a family of 4...me, DH, 5yo and baby. When we get in the water DH takes over with the baby and I take 5yo, after 30 mins I get out with the baby, feed and dress us while my DH has another 30 mins 1:1 with 5yo.

Swim kit for the baby isn’t a barrier to going, just stop at a supermarket on the way.

Good luck op, I’m sure you can get on top of this.

I also laughed when I realised I’d put constipated frisbee instead of confiscated frisbee

Yes my DH is dad to both children, that’s poor wording of mine in the title.

The baby co-sleeps with me. When DS1 wakes up in the morning he comes and gets in bed with me and the baby.

In terms of him lately talking about being on “mommy’s team” I think it’s because he understands the concepts of people being grouped together on one side as he watches football and rugby with DH.

Sending love xx

This will be an essay....I could have written this thread myself, so I really feel for you OP. The only difference is my DS's are now 7 and 9 and I regret so much not dealing with this better and more CONSISTENTLY from the start, it has affected my youngest massively and has caused so many problems within our family.

DS2 was always quite a boisterous toddler and and lashed out at my eldest DS, but literally the second his younger brother (DS3) turned 8mnths and started crawling, he decided he was fair game and started hurting him. We disciplined and got help from the health visitor and I went on parenting course after parenting course, but as ExDP and I had such different standards it never seemed to stop as we just weren't consistent enough.

I agree with PP that it is an attention seeking thing and resentment that your youngest needs your time too. The things that have worked for us:

A marble jar: Each child had a jar and every time said child did something good, kind or helpful they got to pick a marble and pop it in their jar. To begin with you have to facilitate positive situations, but they soon get the hang of it and once their marble jar is full they get a treat. However you don't ever take marbles out for negatives.

Be positive: This was so hard when DS2 was constantly naughty. But try to say 3 positives for every 1 negative. When all your interactions with DS end up being negative, they think this is their lot so do naughty things even more to get attention. So laugh, joke, cuddle and try to make the mundane things in life enjoyable and positive.

Deal with physical attacks instantly: Don't wait, get down to their level look them in the eye and say 'we do not hurt baby brother'. They don't get warnings for this they must realise its not ok.

1 warning for non-violent unwanted behaviour: Only ever give 1warning, then do naughty step, time out or whatever your chosen punishment is.

Golden Time: one of the parenting courses suggested that every evening each child receives 15mins of golden time. I was sceptical but This was one of the best things we tried. This happens everyday no matter what. The child gets to pick what they would like to do and it must be without siblings present. With your youngest it could be massage and a story and with your eldest he gets to decide if he would like to talk, play a game etc. Ours was usually playing toy cars with DS3 and playing minecraft with DS2 or listening to him practice his guitar. The other 2 aren't too fussed about this but my DS2 who we had the issues with still loves this time.

It is so easy for me to look back now and see where we went wrong. Consistency really is key. What worked for me may not work for you. But keep youngest safe by not leaving them alone together, try and be as positive and upbeat as possible, get DH on board so you deal with this the same way, try not to shout (I should take my own advice lol) and just know when DS is a bit older it will be easier to communicate with him and make him understand why hurting his little brother isn't ok. Huge hugs OP x

I have spoken to DH about doing things the 4 of us together as opposed to him having one child and me having the other as I’m pretty sure that’s not helping the “mommy’s team” issue.

We’ve had mintents this morning when he’s been so loving towards the baby, giving him nice cuddles and playing together and then things just escalate out of nowhere and he starts playing up again.

The idea of having 15 minutes Golden Time is a lovely idea and will try and find time to incorporate it into our evenings. It’s all such a rush though eith dinner time, bath time and bedtimes. It feels like from 5pm onwards everything is a whirlwind.

I always make sure I do the eldest ones bedtime routine after the baby is in bed as it just gives us that quality time at the end of the day. I don’t know whether I should start encouraging Dzh to do it to though so it’s a nice experience our eldest gets to do with both parents as opposed to just me. He’s always asking for me though and saying “I want mommy to do it, not daddy” with whatever task needs doing be it getting him a drink, getting him something to eat, brushing his teeth, playing a game with him etc etc So I worry that if I start getting DH to do some bedtimes instead of me it will just further enforce the notion that I’m rejecting him and cause his to behaviour to worsen even more.

I feel like I can’t win whatever I do

“I want mommy to do it, not daddy”

I am never quite sure whether this is actual attention deficit or control. My friends DS does this all the time and it's just to exert power in his case because mummy always comes running. I wouldn't pander to that one, personally assuming you know that you are giving him attention via golden time etc.

Get a chart ticks and crosses. You are thinking about his bad behaviour not his good.