To be genuinely concerned about some of the older drivers on the road

[Melas]

I work at a hospital. Went to lunch today and was approached by a very confused elderly man who couldn’t find the clinic he needed for his wife. He was stooped over, had a tremor and was really frail. I pointed the clinic out three times and he was still confused so I walked him to the doors (he was shuffling) and then went to find a porter to help with his wife.

I came back from lunch and he was driving out of the car park with his wife. Car creeping along at 2mphs, he bumped over the pavement and on to the main road still at around 5-10mph as he went around the corner.

He could barely walk, how is he still driving safely? I do not condone drink driving at ALL but I could have a large glass of wine and be over the limit and I swear I would still be more responsive than he was.

We had an awful incident here a few years ago when an elderly man killed a 16 year old girl on her way to college. He’d had an accident a few days beforehand driving down the wrong side of the road but the police were unable to confiscate his licence (I think this may have changed by now).

Shouldn’t we be retesting at certain age by now? Even if it was 80 that would be something. I can’t stop thinking about this man driving around the roads still.

It's absolutely right to say that there are a lot of very poor drivers on the road (at least 50% if drivers are below average at any given time).

Probably the best solution is black boxes for everyone so their driving and insurance can be personally adjusted, and/or retests for everyone every 10 years and more frequent retests under 25 and over 75.

It is ageist OP when all the data points out that it’s under 25s who cause the most accidents. People have also explained this to you. That you don’t acknowledge this makes me wonder what your agenda is. Doing research for an article?

Glug44, it isn’t ageist to point out that there is an issue with a subsection of society having problems driving

Except of course, the those who have the most dangerous driving patterns are the under 25s.

So if that's what you're pointing out, that's fine.

To insist that the main problem lies with 'elderly' people, when it does not, is ageist.

Points about driving with poor eyesight or when they should be medically disqualified are not anherently age-related either.

If the issue if reducing the number of accidents, and the amount of damage caused, the start where the problem lies - with under 25s.

Thay of course would include bad drivers of any age or those with health conditions of any age, if you targeted the causes of bad driving, rather than demonising the least accident-prone demographic on the road.

(Oh, and you might want to consider measures about women in the months after childbirth, there's a bit of an accident spike than as well - recoil from that idea? Even though it's driven by actual accident rates? Well, stop and think how calling for action against a group which ^isn't really the problem* really sounds)

Except most of the data is out of date and the statistics aren’t read properly?

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/reality-check/2013/oct/11/dangerous-drivers-how-old-uk-age-18

How awful. A whole thread bashing the elderly.

Just because they don’t cause as many deaths doesn’t we should ignore the issue.

THere are much bigger issues then a few older drivers going a few miles under the speed limit. 🙄

The ability to judge yourself comes from the near misses. How many people did I nearly run over this week, how many people did I pull out on, that roundabout was a bit dodgy, people are shouting at me quite a lot on the roads lately... perhaps I am, after all, a shit driver?

I say this to anyone, no matter what your age. Book a refresher lesson and take some control of your terrible driving.

Has anyone got some helpful advice? I work at a doctors surgery. In a rural area. The town bus service has just been axed.
There is a 'Country cars' service for the elderly non drivers to grt them to the surgery or into the busiet town centre for hospital appts.
One person I saw yesterday uses this service and told me the person driving her "should not have been driving, that she was completely unsafe". Should I tell her GP ( I am not her GP,) I mean the pf who runs the country car service who was being complained about? Or just report to the DVLA? This the 1st time I've heard this about this driver, she is very community minded but also v opinionated. The person talking to me was v on the ball.

It would be interesting to see the data on

Hours spent on the road x accidents
Miles driven x accidents

I’m guessing your younger driver theory would be blown out of the water

Every time I’ve seen really poor driving it’s been someone elderly, such as swerving between lanes or doing 15 on a 60 miles per hour road.

My grandmother was very scary on the last few years of her life. She did things like while going round a very busy roundabout coming to an abrupt hault to wind her window down. While looking for a parking space on one side of the road she would be drifting to the other side of the road without noticing while we all shrieked at her.

We were trying to get her to stop but they don’t always realise they are doing it.

Someone above mentioned being 60 and a good driver - but I don’t think anyone is talking about 60 year olds, but 80+.

It’s not everyone - my grandad was a very good driving until aged 90 and he then stopped driving without anyone saying anything to him as he noticed his reaction time was slowing and he thought he might not stop as quickly as needed, so stopped straight away.

I personally wouldn’t support a full retest but I think 75 and ups should have a safety check to include eyesight, reaction time, being able to emergency stop and to check hazard awareness.

How is it ageist to point out that as our bodies get older, our faculties aren’t what they are....

It is a fact of life. We have a minimum age for driving for a reason. Why not look at what we do for people driving at the other end of the spectrum....

I’m not sure I would support a full retest either.

Most people on the road wouldn’t pass at any age! We all get out of the habits that you need to pass the test.

I would support a mini test for over 80 year olds. 30 mins of driving, an emergency stop, eye test and hazard perception

I agree with the idea of retesting after a certain age. Only yesterday we had a near miss with an older lady who seemed quite shaky and frail. She turned into our road as we were heading down to the junction. She was on the wrong side of the road. I'd followed her the other way a few days previously and she stopped about 6 foot back from the junction where she couldn't have seen what was coming then eventually (after quite some time) pulled out in front of someone. It's a 40mph road!

There are plenty of terrible drivers out there of all ages but that doesn't mean that frail older people who clearly shouldn't be driving don't pose a real risk.

The thread is not 'what is the most statistically significant driving risk on the roads today' but 'there are some elderly people who shouldn't be driving'.

My MIL has been stopped from driving by FIL (prompted by the whole family and especially me refusing to let her drive ds or in fact me) but completely doesn't accept it. Despite her dementia diagnosis and rapid decline, frequent falls. She says if she outlives FIL she will have to drive because of where they live. She is barely capable of having a conversation on the phone now though much better in person. What is now worrying me is that the stress of caring for her is affecting FIL's driving, and I need to talk to him about it. The impact of being under relentless strain on all cognitive abilities at any stage of life is underestimated IMO.

Yes young people, usually men, have a higher number of fatalities on the road than the rest of us
This is the crux of the matter. Surely the demographic that causes most deaths/injuries on the road should be under scrutiny rather than demonising older people who may not drive 'at the speed limit' and restrict their driving to roads they are familiar with.
I am 71 - have over 40 years here and abroad of driving safely.
I find driving at night difficult now (never used to) so I don't
I dislike motorway driving (never used to) so I don't and stick to roads I know
I will take heed of what my family say and how good my eyesight is in deciding when to give up
I feel anyone who accrues maximum points on their licence, injures someone through their driving should be made to retake the test not someone's birth date.

Maybe everyone should have retest every 5 years as its not all elderly. But I definitely think there should be a quick eye test every 5 years.

Regular retesting ought not be a problem. There could be a first stage computer simulator test, which could be delivered by a commercial organisation at a reasonable fee. Then if you dont do well enough, you might have a real life test.

Either compulsory, or if there is no immediate political will, insurance companies could offer a discount to the over 65s who take it voluntarily, in the same that they offer discounts to teenagers who take advanced skills courses.

It is very hard to get a relative to give up driving. It might be easier to encourage them to take a test in the same way as you visit an optician or dentist. With the lure that they could save money. And I hope some people, elderly, post operative, taking medication, would welcome a screening process that either gave confidence in your reaction times/judgement, or perhaps suspended licence till a retest or more thorough examination.

Surely the demographic that causes most deaths/injuries on the road should be under scrutiny rather than demonising older people who may not drive 'at the speed limit' and restrict their driving to roads they are familiar with

This isn’t what we are talking about. The examples are a bit more than slow drivers.

The main issue for me is that as we get older, we are more at risk of social isolation. So need cars to get around because of poor local amenities and crap public transport. Maybe we need to have a society with better transport links.

The thread is not 'what is the most statistically significant driving risk on the roads today' but 'there are some elderly people who shouldn't be driving'

Yes, I don't think anyone has disputed that there are people of all ages who shouldn't be driving

What people are pointing out is that if you look at this from the POV of the evidence, then the group you would target for intervention is not the one that OP has selected (hence the whole thread becomes inherently ageist, not because it mentions age. But because it does so inaccurately).

If you are concerned about road safety, then you would be looking at how to improve driving in the groups which cause the greatest problems. And, as many people have pointed out, that is not the elderly.

Interventions that target bad driving and encourage responsible attitudes to health considerations (including medications) and tiredness, irrespective of age of driver, might also have a worthwhile effect.

I live in an area where the dermographics skew towards an older population, with lots of rural villages and towns, and many bungalows. A lot of people move here to retire. Most are perfectly adequate, safe drivers, but you definitely encounter some who are struggling. The trouble is that public transport is pretty much non-existent, so without a car people are stuck. The factors pushing people to keep driving beyond when they should need to be addressed too - and that's not just for the elderly, I definitely noticed my driving confidence take a dip after having DS, but I had no choice but to drive if I wanted to attend HV or GP appointments, see the hospital physio for my post-birth issues, or buy anything beyond the most basic food in the village shop. I could have done with a bus service too!

You do get the odd boy / girl racer around here and they are just as bad but the factors getting them into cars seem likely to be different (although a decent bus service might delay some of them trying to pass their tests as soon as possible).

Having seen the rigmarole we had to go through to stop my grandfather driving after he had shoulder surgery and a diagnosis of dementia, it is clear that the current system of expecting drivers to give up their licences in good faith is not working.

We had to physically sell his car because the doctor and the police couldn't take his licence off him despite the fact that he was clearly unfit to drive.

There needs to be a system in place that doesn't rely on individuals a) noticing their family members are no longer competent drivers and b) having to hide keys and sell cars with the resulting fall out that ensues.

I think some of us are reading a different thread. We aren't talking about driving a little under the speed limit. We are talking about driving on the wrong side of the road, mounting the pavement, stopping dead in moving traffic and on roundabouts or doing 15 in a 60 zone.

Some people over 70 will be excellent drivers, others are a danger to themselves and other road users. Measures are taken to tackle younger drivers, higher premiums, black box insurance for example. Yet we currently have the situation where someone with dementia, very limited mobility or failing eyesight can keep driving until they tell the DVLA that they shouldn't be. That's ridiculous.

I am living in rurual Sweden and this is an issue up here too. My MIL's best friend and her sister were killed just before Christmas. They were been driven an elderly neighbour who unbeknown to them had been advised to stop driving by his family. He misjudged a turning and the car crashed through barriers. All three died.

I agree with the retesting. I don't think it's ageist to suggest so. We are an ageing population. Is the data correct anyway - the amount of stories on here are shocking where they confused/frail drivers were oblivious to what they had done and had driven off without stopping.

My dear departed FIL stopped driving at night because he said his night vision had gone. A year later he said that motoway driving made his eyes water and it gave him headaches so he stopped long distances. This was three years before he died of a heart condition at 76. My MIL has stopped driving at night and refuses to drive on motorways now. Some people are self aware but not enough.

It’s not just the elderly though given the shocking driving I see on a daily basis. You only have to attend a speed awareness course to find people who don’t even know basic stuff like national speed limit on single/dual carriageways. I would introduce a much tougher theory test to be taken by all drivers every two years.

There is already a system for assessing whether someone is fit to drive after a certain age. My elderly father has just been through a series of checks to get his license renewed. It does rely on medical conditions being declared, but it is a fact that there is greater scrutiny of elderly drivers than others.

And along with most people I've had lots of near misses involving arrogant middle aged men, white van drivers and distracted school run drivers who don't have their minds on the road. There are plenty of dangerous people out there and it's not really fair to single out the one group for which an assessment system already exists.

The stats for drivers over 80 are not good at all - there’s a definite bathtub shaped curve for accidents - though young drivers cause the most severe incidents partly due to speed and partly because they’re so often driving with a car full of other young passengers.

But a) if we are going to have drivers at all they have to start somewhere and b) there have been increasing restrictions on young drivers and efforts to reduce the peril they present. It’s not that we’re demonising old drivers while the problems with young drivers are ignored completely - it’s that we see that there are two major hazard groups and only one of them has been the focus of restrictions.

I think over 80 would be a good place to think about driving checks, along with increased requirements for GPS to report and DVLA/police to enforce driving while disqualified more. The problem is that everything is centred around licence plates for obvious reasons - but cross checking with insurance databases should help.