To be genuinely concerned about some of the older drivers on the road

[Melas]

I work at a hospital. Went to lunch today and was approached by a very confused elderly man who couldn’t find the clinic he needed for his wife. He was stooped over, had a tremor and was really frail. I pointed the clinic out three times and he was still confused so I walked him to the doors (he was shuffling) and then went to find a porter to help with his wife.

I came back from lunch and he was driving out of the car park with his wife. Car creeping along at 2mphs, he bumped over the pavement and on to the main road still at around 5-10mph as he went around the corner.

He could barely walk, how is he still driving safely? I do not condone drink driving at ALL but I could have a large glass of wine and be over the limit and I swear I would still be more responsive than he was.

We had an awful incident here a few years ago when an elderly man killed a 16 year old girl on her way to college. He’d had an accident a few days beforehand driving down the wrong side of the road but the police were unable to confiscate his licence (I think this may have changed by now).

Shouldn’t we be retesting at certain age by now? Even if it was 80 that would be something. I can’t stop thinking about this man driving around the roads still.

Yanbu, I live in the south, in an area with a huge retired population and I can categorically say that in my 12yrs of driving, every single near miss I’ve ever had was with someone over the age of retirement.
On a stretch of motorway near me, only last year, an elderly bloke was caught driving towards traffic after entering via the exit slipway, he got quite a way too before the police stopped him!

only last week driving to my mums an frail looking chap was at a junction waiting to pull onto the road I was on, he waited, I carried on at the speed I was traveling (about 45mph) then when I was less than 20ft away he suddenly decided to try and pull out in front of me luckily no one was on the opposite side of the road I was on, so I could quickly swerve out right onto the other side of the road, but was a slightly bum clenching moment!

Dps gd had to be heavily persuaded to give up his car, bizarrely the family were all abit well, he doesn’t go far in it, drives slowly etc etc, after the first few times I met him I said to dp he can’t drive, you must get your Mum to talk to him about selling the car as he’s going to have an accident and either hurt himself or hurt someone else. Dps Mum had a chat and he sold the car soon after, so relived as it was unnecessary and dangerous for him to be driving.

I do think it should be law to be retested at 70 and every 3-5yrs thereafter, most people will not willingly give up their license and freedom and to think people can receive for example, a dementia diagnosis and still be free to drive is frankly alarming, there needs to be some sort of communication system between health professionals and gps whereby anything that significantly affects sight/leg/arm/neck movement or cognitive functioning is reported in as a warning to dvla, who could then perhaps assess/retest the individual and their capacity to drive.

My DF remembered vividly the frustration he had when my GF carried on driving even though he had started to have trouble with his mobility and had a few scrapes. Luckily noone was ever hurt and DF and his brother convinced DGF to stop driving.

Did that stop my DF from carrying on when he himself wasn't fit to? No. Very frustrating and scary to pop round for a cuppa and see the car damaged. When asked what had happened, DF had hit the garden wall after driving out to take my DSis home from work. I'd also previously had a phone call from a local shop asking me to go round because DF's foot had slipped off the brake onto the accelerator when parking. He was right by the entrance and had driven up on to the pavement and into their fence. If someone had been coming out of the shop at that moment it would have been a disaster!

It wasn't eyesight or mobility for DDad. Both times he was found to be in need of medical attention at the hospital for infections (he had terminal cancer) and he was so stubborn about letting people know, partly due to denial about his condition. When he was better after the shop incident, he went straight back to driving, but as he was fit and well again he was fine to. But he didn't appreciate how quickly he went down when he had an infection.

Luckily, when Ddad hit the wall with his car noone was around and no harm was done, except to his garden wall. And the car was damaged. He could have arranged to have it fixed straight away, but I think he secretly knew he shouldn't be on the road so just put off getting the damage repaired. We actually got it sorted after he'd died in case DM wants to drive the car.

I think it's very commendable of people who give up their licences voluntarily when they feel they need to. Yet some feel they need their vehicles more when their own mobility becomes poorer. And I'm not sure people can be that objective about their ability to drive or not as it's probably their perception. I know I've driven home from work when feeling absolutely shite and felt safe to drive, so i'm sure some who really shouldn't be driving still feel safe.

Some of the examples on this thread are though.

I'm over 60 and get really cheap car insurance as I have 35 years no claims bonus. If you speak to insurance companies, you'll find that the most dangerous drivers, who cause a disproportionate number of accidents, are not in fact the elderly, but the male under 25's. Young idiots, fuelled on testosterone and often alcohol or drugs as well, inexperienced drivers, silly risk takers, speeding to impress their friends.
Most elderly drivers are careful and law abiding, and only drive regular familiar routes like to the shops or their GP.
If you really want to re-test drivers every few years, start with the young ones!

My aunt was always a lousy driver but got even more terrifying in old age. Dad and I were discussing dobbing her in for being unable to safely drive when she had a bad accident on a dual carriageway (luckily no one was hurt) and she was given the choice between giving up her licence or being prosecuted. Yet Dad was a safe driver right till the end.

FIL's optician wrote to DVLA after he failed an eye test and they immediately revoked his licence. He really should have given up driving years ago, I didn't let him drive my DC anywhere.

Babdoc older drivers tend to have accidents at lower speeds and so the overall cost to the insurance industry is lower. It doesn't mean they are safe. The fact they tend to only drive regular familiar routes is the problem; they become complacent and less aware of hazards. They think they know exactly what is going to happen along the way; quite simply, they don't.

The issue with young drivers is completely different. Yes, they are more likely to have higher speed crashes but re-testing won't help. They are capable of passing a test, they just don't want to drive in accordance with what they were taught. I do believe licences should be restricted to passenger limits and engine size limits for a certain period after being issued.

I agree with pretty much everyone on this thread including the ones saying the very much younger drivers and very much older drivers are more likely to cause accidents involving fatalities. While I appreciate this will require an investment in additional test instructors etc, perhaps the way forward is for everyone to undergo regular tests (perhaps 5 yearly?) then very yr/2yrs after age 70. I must admit that having been a very safe and confident driver for many years I lost confidence - and concentration - for a period after having 2 babies in short succession and self-limited my driving during that period...if only people had that self awareness we would all be a little bit safer?

My DF is in his mid 80s, is diagnosed with dementia and still has his driving licence! He hasn't driven though for about 2 years now, and my mother hides the car keys in case he decides to get in the car and drive. So far, he hasn't tried, as far as I know.

The dementia diagnosis was only last year, but he has been increasingly confused for the past 4 years. About 3 years ago I told my parents that I would not allow my DS to be driven by my DF, and that actually, I didn't want to be his passenger again either. His ability to make judgements was becoming dangerously impaired, and the last time I was in the car with them, he was about to overtake a cyclist very close to a bend in the road with no way of seeing what was coming towards us. I shouted from the back seat, and he slowed down and pulled back in behind the cyclist.

He and my DM both minimised it, and he continued to drive for a while after that. My DM kept saying it was ok because he was only driving short distances on familiar routes. I pointed out that many accidents happen very close to home and that his familiar routes involved a dual carriageway with a speed limit of 70mph and a couple of very big and complex roundabouts. It was entirely possible that he would get to the bigger roundabout, which has been extended in recent years, and be completely baffled because he would only remember what it was like maybe 20 or 30 years ago. Or if there was a diversion or roadworks - he would not be capable of finding another route, following signs or reacting to any unexpected event.

So, yes, some kind of testing regime from about 70 onwards. Maybe not an in-car test - some kind of physical and cognitive assessment to test hazard perception, reaction times, etc.

Agree with you.

I was in the doctors car park recently, sat in my car when someone drove into the car park, then badly parked a huge 4x4.

When the frail old lady got out she could barely walk, she was shuffling slowly along holding onto the car to help herself.

I appreciate it must be hard to maintain independence when you're old and can't drive, but we must think of the safety above this. It's scary how many drivers you get stuck behind that you can tell are old and unfit for the roads around my area.

Thing about younger drivers is that they get better with age and experience, and that's reflected in insurance premiums. Many are now taking advantage of black box technology to make car ownership and insurance in any way affordable. The testing process has changed and it is much more robust, plus the sheer cost involved in actually getting a licence is prohibitive. But the opposite is true with older drivers- reaction times, eyesight and faculties only continue to get worse with age and, as it's been pointed out, sticking to familiar routes can only cause problems when they stray out of their comfort zone.

It's also very easy for the elderly and those close to them to not notice the degree of decline- we're going through this at the moment with DFIL, albeit "only" in relation to his hearing. He doesn't want to admit he needs hearing aids as to him that's finally admitting he's an old man. But because it's been so gradual he doesn't realise how bad his hearing is, so doesn't understand how much hearing aids would improve his life. I can easily see that being the case for others in relation to their eyesight, reaction times, upper body strength/mobility etc.

Statistically younger drivers may cost the industry more and cause more fatal accidents, but given the above combined with a rapidly aging population that may not always be the case. With the present system we're expecting older people to be honest and self-aware enough to know when the game is up and voluntarily give up an incredible amount of independence and, to many, a big part of their identity. I think bi-yearly retesting or at least a "fit to drive" medical after 75 would be more than reasonable.

YANBU OP

It is shocking how many reckless pensioners are driving out there that shouldn't.

And if they crash into you etc they won't be covered by their insurance if they have a condition that their GP etc knows about and is documented.

So many drive with the wrong glasses prescription because they don't want to buy a new pair of glasses for instance so drive half blind.

Whilst others won't see their GP knowing that a condition they have will prevent them from driving.

They are as reckless and dangerous as a drink driver because they are deliberately driving and endangering peoples lives.

My sister was witness to the aftermath of this accident when one of her neighbours was killed by an older driver www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/15600396.___She_was_a_lovely_lady_____Tributes_left_to_85_year_old_woman_killed_in_Mudeford_crash/
Rgrc
It's due to go to court this month so i won't repeat what witnesses said happened but it was deeply upsetting for locals.

My husband's grandfather had to have his car keys confiscated by his daughter after he went driving one afternoon and had two, thankfully minor, collisions. One with another car and one with a curb and street sign. He was actually on his way home from the garage getting a new tyre after he had damaged the old one driving into a curb a few days earlier. He lived very close to where this devastating accident happened in a carpark when the driver killed 2 women when he reversed and hit the accelerator instead of the brake. www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/philip-bull-dangerous-driving-live-13868032

And well done everyone for being responsible enough in making sure family members who shouldn't be driving aren't, it's no different to taking the keys off a drunk driver imho for everyone's safety.

the response was that he could keep driving until he felt ready to give up
wtf

Many are now taking advantage of black box technology to make car ownership and insurance in any way affordable
maybe we should all have compulsory black boxes?

It is very hard for anyone to accurately assess themselves, I think I feel OK in my 50s but would I, in my 20s or 30s have thought this was OK? Our bodily decline is imperceptible and I suspect people in their old age do not realise how much they have fallen back from their prime

We have in my family at the moment an issue of an older relative with diagnosed dementia who has been advised to surrender her license and is fighting tooth and nail to keep it.

@WhatshallIdoeithmyself yes I’ve just seen that!! An elderly person in charge of a powerful car like that. Do lucky nobody was walking into the underpass

Like everyone else, I agree. The two big accidents I and my family have been involved in, the drivers were very elderly and utterly confused. 1 pulled straight into the side of a car going round a roundabout. The other pulled out of a side road into the side of a car driving down the main road. The second accident, the impact was the passenger side where a newborn was in a car seat. Fortunately (and I’ve no idea how, having seen the impact) there were no injuries. In both cases, the other drivers couldn’t account for how the accidents had occurred.

Most fatal accidents are caused by the under 25s it’s why their insurances are so expensive. Elderly drivers, in proportion, don’t drive riskily; most do regular routes, avoid motorway driving etc. I think you need to read more than the Daily Mail before spouting out this kind of ageist nonsense.

Last year my DD (then 5) was hit by an elderly female driver as we were leaving school. She just pulled off her driveway and hit my DD walking on the pavement - she was skipping a little way in front of me. Luckily it was a slow speed and DD had scrapes and bruises but the fear I felt when I saw her drop was indescribable. I thought the woman was going to keep going but luckily as there were so many families around they all ran and screamed at the woman to stop.

When she got out of the car she hobbled over to check DD was okay, she was clearly frail and said she didn’t see her! So yes, re-testing needed!

Yabu

Usual ageist nonsense here. Lots of drivers should not be on the road by dint of their ability NOT their age.

There was a big crash on a motorway this week, caroused by a driver turning down it the wrong way.

Perhaps all drivers of that person's age should be banned? Or made to retest annually?

He was 22, btw.

Anecdote is not data.

The nearest thing to data is what the (hard nosed, unsentimental, cost driven) insurance industry uses, based in actual driving patterns.

"elderly" drivers have lower premiums.

The way they drive is safer - possibly be self-selection of his much they drive - but when they drive they have fewer and less damaging accidents.

If you are genuinely concerned about having age restrictions to make the roads safe, you'd follow the evidence and ban the under 25s from driving at all.

Yabu

Usual ageist nonsense here. Lots of drivers should not be on the road by dint of their ability NOT their age.

Agree with bloody bells on

Glug44, it isn’t ageist to point out that there is an issue with a subsection of society having problems driving.

Yes young people, usually men, have a higher number of fatalities on the road than the rest of us. And a lot has been done about it. Higher premiums, more rigourous driving tests, driving education in colleges, black box insurance for young drivers etc etc.

Just because they don’t cause as many deaths doesn’t we should ignore the issue.

Quite rightly drink driving is illegal and carries harsh penalties. Why? Because there is a recognision that driving whilst under the influence affects your reaction time, cognitive abilities and physical ability to drive safely. Much the same as advancing age does.