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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To wonder who is actually responsible for rising murder rates in london

294 replies

SaucyJane · 04/04/2018 16:05

So slimy frog faced Nigel Farage is blaming Sadiq Khan as mayor and particularly for reducing stop and search. There are also other calls for Khan to resign.

But surely there is only so much Khan can do if the government makes huge cuts to the police. And weren't those cuts made under Maggie May?

I didn't vote for Khan to be the mayor, and I am no fan of his, but it seems to me that it is unfair to blame it on him, and that the answer is probably partly government cuts and partly some of his changes since being mayor.

AIBU?

OP posts:
Battleax · 05/04/2018 08:19

It isn’t because these young people are black that they are caught up in gang related violence but because of the environment that they, specifically, are caught up in. I don’t think it helps anyone to pretend that statistically everyone is at risk of the same kind of involvement.

But that was my point; It’s not “race”, per se, that dictates who lives together, who lives on the estates, etc; It’s MONEY.

London is very very close to being “post race”, sociologically.

AndromedaPerseus · 05/04/2018 08:19

The root of this problem lies in the downgrading of cannabis to a C grade drug by the Blair government (though now reclassify as a B grade drug) ever since its been openly traded on London streets by teenage gangs (run and supplied by serious criminals) with no/minimal police intervention. This embolden said criminals and gangs to then move onto harder and more lucrative drugs such as cocaine and heroin.

Sadly the real criminals behind it are rarely caught and it’s the teenage dealers and runners who are the collateral in the drug wars normally whilst defending their turf. I come into contact with troubled teenagers as part of safeguarding and they tell me being involved in the drugs trade is a far more attractive proposition than working for NMW in Tescos.

Now it’s getting to the point when the killings on London streets are endemic Politicians And the police have to notice and take action but I feel it’s too little too late.

Battleax · 05/04/2018 08:23

The correlation between fatherlessness (due to divorce and absent fathers) and criminality is more likely to be about the fact that divorce/separation and absent fatherhood are more likely to occur in parents who have certain types of personality traits, and the fact that these families are much more likely to live in dodgy neighborhoods.

No, it’s been studied again and again, and if you factor out the finances, there’s no difference between outcomes for DC from one parent or two parent homes.

Money is the main problem for single parents.

I understand your logic, but sometimes “those types” (high conflict, low impulse control) do stay together too. So they’re on both sides of it.

puppower · 05/04/2018 09:06

My friends is in the Met & says social media is having an impact for two reasons.

  1. the whole bragging/showing off culture which ties in with hip hop music culture.

  2. Goading rivals, egging others on etc.

Huntinginthedark · 05/04/2018 10:22

almost every nice middle class person I know in London uses cocaine. and a lot of it.
if you're spending 500-1000 P/M on it and there are lots of you, it's a bloody good industry to make money out of.
All of their dealers are 20 something black men.
Who in turn, probably have 15 year old black kids running for them.

The hypocrisy of the middle class elite in this is astounding.

boredofwaitingagain · 05/04/2018 10:28

My cousin is a New Yorker. She came to visit recently and chose not to go to London because of safety issues. The government will have to do something as this sort of report will affect the international tourist market.

stopfuckingshoutingatme · 05/04/2018 10:31

Oh that’s bullshit - sorry !!!

I have lived in London my entire life and the risk faces these young people sadly

People won’t stop coming because teenage boys are stabbing each other

LakieLady · 05/04/2018 10:36

The root of this problem lies in the downgrading of cannabis to a C grade drug by the Blair government (though now reclassify as a B grade drug) ever since its been openly traded on London streets by teenage gangs (run and supplied by serious criminals) with no/minimal police intervention. This embolden said criminals and gangs to then move onto harder and more lucrative drugs such as cocaine and heroin.

I think I agree with this, and I'm (reluctantly) coming round to the view that legalisation and regulation might do a lot to improve things.

puppower · 05/04/2018 10:50

I think one of the biggest issue is the cuts to the youth services. The kids need a space away from the streets & to see there are other opportunities.

puppower · 05/04/2018 10:57

Huntinginthedark

I was shocked when I left S.London & went to Uni & everyone did coke. My friends & I were all brought up to avoid drugs as that was the surest way to mess your life up particularly for the boys.

boredofwaitingagain · 05/04/2018 11:01

No I think you are wrong. These reports combined with the terrorist threat (and internationally we are seen as a soft target due to the austerity cuts) mean that certain demographics will stop coming. Certainly her (professional educated) perception was that London was dangerous. Her peers have similar views. I found this laughable given she travels through penn station daily and works downtown.

I've got friends in this country that won't go to London anymore due to perceived threats.

Unfortunately money talks and that will be the key to the solution. Not poor underprivileged kids shooting and shanking each other.

For what it is worth I think lack of opportunity is the problem (also the reason for growth in sympathy for terrorist organisations). It is interesting that London is meant to have the best state schools in the country yet the problem persists. There is no quick fix as this issue has been brewing for a number of generations.

boredofwaitingagain · 05/04/2018 11:04

Also agree that drugs are the crux of the issue. Loads of shops being held up where I live - it's all for drug money.

I agree with the poster that comments on the middle class hypocrisy- coke is rife in my nice middle class area.

Mumto2two · 05/04/2018 11:11

I'm not sure where the real roots of this sad situation lies. Today's news mentions statistics showing that victims are primarily black race, and question whether this is why people are not outraged enough. What a ridiculous comment. Most people are outraged by this, and feel sad for any family affected by this. But there is also an element of expectation that this is what happens in places like Tottenham or whereever. Gang culture is rife, and carrying of weapons is a big part of that. How do you tackle that, I honestly don't know. Take the poor 17yr old girl murdered yesterday. The media reporting she has no links with crime or gangs etc...yet then mentions that her father was imprisoned for threatening violence with an offensive weapon. Of course one would hope that this did not in any way have any bearing on this awful tragedy. But it does raise an uncomfortable fact. In some neighbourhoods this culture of fear and rivalry is almost entrenched. Why is that so? What can be done?
There is so much to understand and consider, from a deep rooted cultural perspective, a lot of which probably has never even been openly probed. And I certainly don't think it is fair to pin blame or responsibility for this, on any one politician.

NotAgainYoda · 05/04/2018 11:14

Hunting

I agree (about cocaine)

Vitalogy · 05/04/2018 11:29

We are all responsible.

frankchickens · 05/04/2018 13:52

We are all responsible.

No we are fucking not. I am not having this laid at my fucking door, at all.

Sarkyharky · 05/04/2018 13:59

Me neither!

puppower · 05/04/2018 14:10

Disappointed that Sadiq has waited days to lay all the blame on the police cuts.

Vitalogy · 05/04/2018 16:04

No we are fucking not. I am not having this laid at my fucking door, at all. Anger and aggression at a sentence from some random on a forum. How do you react in RL towards others.

NowToWork · 05/04/2018 16:09

We are not all responsible.
Such a woolly , pass the buck thing to say.

frankchickens · 05/04/2018 16:11

How do you react in RL towards others.
I react in a variety of ways - what the fuck does that have to do with anything?
We are categorically not "all responsible" for the rising in shootings and knifings in London - that is a preposterous claim.

Original poster
SaucyJane · 05/04/2018 16:31

How are you responsible, vitalogy?

Let's start there before you accuse everyone, shall we?

OP posts:
Vitalogy · 05/04/2018 16:31

pass the buck thing to say. I'm not passing any buck, I said "we"

I react in a variety of ways - what the fuck does that have to do with anything? It's got everything to do with it, that's the point.

Vitalogy · 05/04/2018 16:36

How are you responsible, vitalogy? Let's start there before you accuse everyone, shall we? Start with ourselves and how we treat others.

Original poster
SaucyJane · 05/04/2018 16:44

Nice avoidance of the question there.

How are YOU responsible?

OP posts: