Mil's secret talks

[SebsCat]

I think this is more of a WWYD?

My relationship with my MIL is tricky. Neither of us like each other (as people, we have v different values) but I'm always careful to be polite and civil, as I think it's important to treat family with respect.

I do really appreciate how much she loves DC. I will always be grateful for more people to love and care for them and I try hard to allow them to develop an independent relationship with their GM. We live in the UK but PIL live in our country of origin, so a few times a week I'll call them, give the phone to DD5 and let her have a chat in her room so she can get some time with them, without me around.

Last year, MIL started asking DD to keep little 'secrets' from me. Nothing major, let's buy this in secret and eat that in secret. I really had to put my foot down, as I don't think young children should be encouraged to keep secrets from parents. It caused a lot of fuss, more so because MIL sees herself as the unquestionable and all knowing matriarch of the family but I held firm.

Now my DD has thrice said things to me, suggesting MIL is subtly influencing her against me/ for my DH.

1. Your mum shouldn't give daddy a hard time if he wants to game all day, he works hard in a real job
2. You should go to your fave restaurant alone with Daddy, no need to take Mummy, you need 1:1 time
3. Mummy doesn't really know how to do your hair, tell me I'll do it for you when you visit

I know they are small things but I'm just uncomfortable at her trying to influence DD in these ways without acknowledging them to me.

One of the reasons we don't see eye to eye is that MIL is very proud of her ability to manipulate everyone around her and I've turned down her 'tips' on controlling DH and DC before.

I know she will deny, and then throw a strop if I confront her. WWYD?

Tell your dh to step up and tell his mother to keep her nose out of it. Maybe start doing Skype calls so you can hear what us being said and point out at the time that she is wrong to suggest what she is saying.

Stop the private calls. Just make sure you are present for every call. Get your DH on side too so that she doesn't start making calls when you are out.

I'd stop facilitating the phonecalls and make sI was in the room during any facilated by your dh.

I would FaceTime with your dd in the same room. Why would you continue to let her have time alone on the phone if she’s talking shit about you? Simple solution, really.

Utterly simple no more private phone calls and chats with DD that we only keep surprises not secrets!

Is dd5 5yo? Sorry I’m new. If so I think allowing her time to chat to pils without you around is inappropriate.
Mil is obviously a controlling pain in the arse, and I’d be furious if someone was encouraging my 5 yo to keep secrets from me!
It’s all a bit creepy,tbh
Let her say ‘hi grandma, yes I’m fine, I went swimming today and had pasta for tea’ etc with you in the background peeling a carrot
Don’t let her get private access to your kids to por shite in their ears

Honestly. I would confront her. I have known several people who think they ate good manipulators. The quickest way to get them to stop is to throw it back in their face. No need to be polite, when you are polite they g we take away with it reinforcing the notion that they are Master manipulators. Just say "So I've noticed that you have been trying to manipulate DD against me. Oh, didn't you know. She tells me everything. Seem seems quite perplexed by it all. I suppose she thinks you are being silly. I don't know why you bother. You are so pathetic you can't even manipulate a little girl. I strongly suggest you stop it. ". Follow it up with the threat that you will 'stop humouring her' if she continues. These people spend so much time thinking about how to manipulate others that the slightest bit if doubt can spin them into a paranoia that they are being manipulated themselves.

Very simple solution. All calls between DC and grandparents are on skype /speaker so everyone can hear.

Secrets between adults and children are not good, you need to make sure you DD understands this and in fact tells her Grandma that it is wrong. You also need to get your DH on board, if he won't then I would stop the calls.

Another one saying stop the private calls. At the very least, I’d make sure I was in the same room as DD whilst they happened.

Does your husband know about this? I think ideally, he needs to tell MIL to back off.

What the other said, stop the private calls.

In this instance you are quite fortunate in that you can solve this so easily. If she lived locally to you, it would be much harder to manage without a confrontation.

The thing is, we see them quite often, we go back to country of origin twice a year and they visit us twice a year so she had plenty of time to have her 'little chats' with DD even if I supervise the Skype calls. The bit about doing her hair, for example, was when I asked her to put DDs hair up whilst I got DS ready to go out whilst they were visiting.

She also point blank lies if I confront her about anything, but I guess I'll just have to say my piece and ignore her response

I've asked DH to have a word but as with anything related to his mother, he'll agree I'm right and then stick his head in the sand.

As well as keeping all conversations public, I’d be frequently reinforcing with the children that it’s very wrong for adults to ask children to keep secrets.

No need to confront if you don't think it would help, just manage it so she is never in a room alone with dd either for Facetime calls or when she's visiting. But yes, absolutely NBU to protect dd from being used in MiLs head games. Weigh up the cost: worst scenario of discreetly managing it, MiL kicks off and gets grumpy that dd never seems to be alone with her. She'll live. Worst scenario of dd being used and manipulated, potentially quite damaging.

Hello seb !

I think our mils maybe related ?

Honestly they will never change. It’s their personality. I’ve just spoken to dh about mil today revving up again to cause trouble after a three year NC of being excluded from shit - They just can’t help it.

If I was in your shoes I’d

Think about going NC because honestly that’s the only way you will get peace

Or if that’s not possible - speak honestly and frankly about mil in front of your kids so they know what she is doing is wrong. They get away with so much because people cover their shit up. Try to limit your visits. You being so open and giving means shit to her

Good luck

Have your taught your daughter about 'tricky people' yet? (Here)

No adult should be encouraging a child to keep a secret from either parent. Letting a child think that this is ok could potentially leave them open to abuse.

Before anyone accuses me of saying MIL is abusive, I am not. I am pointing out that a child should not accept any adult telling them to keep a secret, no matter who it is.

With my son, we had a rule that if anyone told him a secret, he had to tell me. Golden rule, never to be broken. MIL need not know

Tell her you won't be going, and she won't be staying with you if she doesn't stop it. Has your dh got other relatives who will side with you, maybe other dils have had same treatment? Out of order, and dangerous to encourage secrets.

I have a relative who will behave in a similar way. I've headed this off by teaching DS that this person will sometimes say things that are wrong, to not belive them, and to always tell me. As DS has got older I've been able to explain why this person behaves as they do and he understands. He's now 8 and nothing has worked. In fact, he does a great line in eye-rolling and laughing as he now spots things himself.

I'd put an end to all private calls, and also cut down on her access to the child. Why enable someone to potentially turn your child against you?

@Yarboosucks With my son, we had a rule that if anyone told him a secret, he had to tell me. Golden rule, never to be broken. MIL need not know

yeah this - we have the same rule - any one tells you its a secret you tell mummy or daddy as soon as you can, you will never be in trouble

I agree with others, no more private talks.

Also start discussing with your daughter how to handle/challenge/respond to your MIL when she starts saying these things.

Stop the phone calls is the first and easiest thing.

As for the visits, what ages are the children? As they get older and more involved with school/activities it will be easy to drop the number of visits down and limit contact and so how much MIL can influence things.

It sounds as though your DH has never made that leap from child/adult to adult/adult relationship with his mother. If that's so you have a rocky road ahead of you, an he will be reluctant to defend your point of view to his mother.

You sound strong and sensible and are probably bringing your DD up to think for herself. In the long term this will be your best defence against MIL's nastiness.

Children shouldn't have secrets and yes they may be small but YANBU at all. If I were you I'd try and cut as much contact as possible and when that's not possible make it as supervised as possible.