The Silent child

[Puffycat]

I’ve just watched this award winning short film and am in bits!
My DH said ‘oh you’ll enjoy it, it’s uplifting ‘
Uplifting my arse!
I’m so cross at the stupid parents. Surely the first thing you do when you have a deaf child is learn sign language!
The bit at the end when Libby signs ‘I love you’ to her therapist finished me off!
I just hope it raised awareness

For crying out loud, can Camilla et al just stop fighting! All anyone wants to know is which areas have ample support? Camilla seems to know of some great support in London somewhere. Camilla pls can you share the name of your or school or is that too outing? Or perhaps you can PM those interested.

We had a deaf little boy at the playgroup I used to run, but his parents weren't having any of it. Dad was an abuser, Mum was scared of her own shadow and the children had missed all of their developmental checks and vaccines. We were powerless to help and he got no help or diagnosis until he started school..... he had more or less total hearing loss and was hugely developmentally delayed. He went to special school in the end, even though Dad fought it every step of the way. Watching that film made me feel so very very sad for all the children out there not getting the help they deserve and need

I don't know anything about signing but Rachel's dad is deaf so she's grown up signing and that's why she feels passionate about all this. So I assumed she had good signing

Unfortunately this is the attitude many have with hearing people who sign.

It was me who said that. In principle, I agree with you. It's not nice to be really making the effort to learn BSL and hear the familiar "are you level 1?" (said when I was level 6!)/"you're shit", etc comments that learners are often treated to.

In this case though, Shenton, who appears to have pretty basic sign, cast herself in the role of a social worker (?) who tasked herself with teaching a deaf child to sign. Do I think a hearing person who is unrelated to the child, with conversational BSL, should take that upon themselves? No, but they often do.

A more ethical treatment of the situation I think would have shown Shenton referring Libby to NDCS or the local deaf society for sign language lessons from a native BSL user.

Probably wouldn't have made for the same emotive impact though.

I did feel the producer had a pro-sign language agenda - which is fine. But in order to put that across there were things that felt inaccurate to me. I know about special needs provision in schools and there is no way that such a child would have been at school without the proper provision being in place - OfSted would blast them if they didn't for a start.

Also the parents were depicted as demons - and nothing like any parents with a child with special needs that I have ever met.

The signing or not debate has been raging for years, and the producer is entitled to his/her views. But these would have been better conveyed if there had been a bit of balance.

The young deaf actress deserved the Oscar, but not the film as a whole.

I don't know anything about signing but Rachel's dad is deaf so she's grown up signing and that's why she feels passionate about all this.

She didn't grow up signing. Her father became deafened through cancer treatment when she was a young teenager. He didn't sign and died a few years later. She started learning in her teens .

It hasn't stopped the press for years from claiming that she was a "qualified BSL interpreter". The Sun's most outlandish claim was that she qualified aged 12. It was only when RS was taken to task repeatedly on Twitter post-Oscar win did she issue the corrective that she is not, and has never been, a BSL interpreter.

I'm sure she feels passionately about the issue though.

@TheGruffalosarse

Wow? It must be a really hard time to come to this thread and seeing the film to make a decision.

I have to say, though I have learned bsl ball for my child, as they have moderate loss ( moderate to severe when there are also conductive issues) it's been hard.

BSL was the only thing that have him the will to communicate and eventually kickstarted speech. However, as we live in a world where people mostly speak, he himself lost focus and wanted to speak more than sign. I continue to try and retain what i learned for him but the truth is it's hard to teach a language that you can't consistently use every day and can't practice enough with other speakers to become fluent. The conflict I have is for the now against the future. My child comes home from school every day exhausted. To teach BSL in his situation needs more of a formal approach as its often not practical day to day. Time spent focusing on bsl vocabulary takes time away from reading, talking about his day, helping with speech sounds, allowing him to rest and just spending time being his mum. What some outsiders to miss is it's not cut and dry that deaf children have to learn bsl. But they all deserve a chance. I wish my child had more interest in it, but as hard as i try, I can't force him to do it back, and its hard not to feel guilty about that sometimes as a hearing parent. It's all in saved in my head at least, should he want to take it on more one day.

Parents know their children best and all kids are different. The good ones shouldn't feel crappy, whatever decision they make as long as it's for the right reasons.

Yeah I think I did know that about when she was a teenager. Worded it wrong.

It sounds very interesting and conflicting hearing about all the issues

@ButchyRestingFace i know as a professional you're coming at this from a completely different angle to me (a hearing person with a deaf child who is learning bsl), but that shit sign comment did irritate me a bit also. My daughter is predominately learning bsl from me, currently doing level 2, although we go to a playgroup run by a deaf lady once a week and i try to take her to places where bsl native users will be as i can. I've actually never had the attitude of "you're shit" from deaf people, who've been very supportive, but I've had it from interpreters/hearing people of higher levels. I'm trying my bloody best! (By the way, this isn't a pop at you, i think i just need a rant now!) I feel like saying 'you try then, teaching your child, the most precious thing to you, a language that you yourself don't know, with the immense pressure that you mustn't fuck it up, while still dealing with the fact that they've got a disability that you never in a million years expected to be dealing with!' When you're really trying so hard not to fuck it all up, then someone laughs at you and tells you that she sign you're using for horse is the London sign, not the Manchester one, scathingly, it does send you a little ragey! So long story short, i think attitudes like that are pretty unhelpful.

I try to take her to as many places where bsl native users will be as i can.

Just another note, outside of basic vocabulary signs I would love to work on the alphabet in bsl with my boy but am not sure how to approach that as he already uses both jolly phonics signs for reading and cued articulation signs for speech, all incorporating different signs for the same sounds. So confusing for these kids and so hard for parents to know where to start sometimes...

Thanks @JaneyEJones

@gruffalosarse please don’t let uninformed comments get to you. As I said in my post I have worked with implanted children who have amazing language skills and are very high academic achievers.

I've actually never had the attitude of "you're shit" from deaf people, who've been very supportive, but I've had it from interpreters/hearing people of higher levels. I'm trying my bloody best! (By the way, this isn't a pop at you, i think i just need a rant now!)

Totally understand. It was a bit of snide of me - probably induced by all the "Rachel Shenton is a qualified BSL interpreter" articles floating around. But I should have been more sensitive.

I haven't experienced any interpreters telling me I'm shit (yet). In your position, I'd tell them to wind their beaks in if they did. You're not claiming to be a professional.

Actually, the infighting on here between Camilla and Butchy has really pissed me off.

I’m only level 2. However, I have every intention to get to L6 and beyond. To then qualify as an interpreter. I’m being taught by a tutor who is herself profoundly deaf. My nanny kiddy is in a schol in W Yorks with excellent support, has an ECHP and many children at her school are also deaf/implanted/wear hearing aids. One of the teachers is deaf, and they use the radio mikes.

However, I’m starting to think there will be a lot of resistance against me because I can hear. Actually I have hyper-sensitive hearing, yet can sign. Even through the rear-view mirror in the car.

The two of you are not showing the skills and empathy of a signer r translator, or indeed, ANYONE trying to learn, in a very good light at all.

Please, take it to PM.

Agreed. I’m on level 2 because the deaf children I teach don’t sign and my signing skills wouldn’t automatically help them. Being level 6/interpreter isn’t the gold standard in being a good ToD, it’s actually being able to work with the child and develop their language and communication skills in whatever way is best for them.

Also, proper BSL is silent and many children just benefit from a few signs of gestures to cue them in alongside speech. This is a different skill. There are very few children whose first natural language is sign who do need pure BSL. There is also a huge amount of children with additional needs, language disorders and masses whose language at home is not English or BSL.
To narrow the whole thing down to signing skills is extremely short sighted.

Crepe, the problem with that is the children you work with that aren't using sign would likely benefit from sign so should be taught it as part of there language development.

There is much taught in schools that is essential but it's still taught. The reason so few deaf children sign is that it's not encourage enough. I know families who have asked for their child to be taught sign language but this is refused as not seen as essential even know these children are struggling in mainstream

Bf1000 until you have met the children I work with and their families you’re not in a position to say what they need and don’t need. But also I have said signing should be part of all schooling to support deaf and hearing children and I do use signing with some children I work with.
High level BSL which is what I was talking about, is not appropriate for the vast majority of deaf children and by the time a parent had got to that level their child would already be in school.

Also please consider the feelings of the parents reading this who have not signed with their deaf children who are now being made to feel like they’ve done something wrong, after going through diagnosis of their child, getting them to wear hearing aids, endless appointments and decisions, possible surgery and rehabilitation, a fight for support, ear infections, more decisions and attempts to network with other deaf families.
In the film the mother mentions that Libby refused a hearing aid but it doesn’t go into more detail. This is a huge point. She was neglected in many ways not just lack of signing.

I don't think level 6/qualified interpreter is the "gold standard" either, particularly when there are so few "pure" BSL using youngsters left. Hence why I mentioned CSWs/lipspeakers/notetakers, etc. Have never met anyone who uses cued speech but apparently there are some out there.

In my area though (Scotland), after the BSL Act 2015 there was widespread consultation with the deaf community on a range of themes, resulting in a "national plan" of actions to take forward.

One of the action points relating to education was that ToDs and support workers should all have a "high level" of BSL. Didn't specify what the level should be.

There are only three training organisations in Scotland where one can train to level 6. They're all based around Glasgow. Anyone living further afield is going to have a hell of a time accessing training and practice. Unless there's a massive cash injection from the government I don't see how it's practicable.

There was an ad in the press last year seeking a qualified primary teacher who was also a qualified BSL interpreter. Primary school teacher salary - no additional increment for the BSL interpreting qualification. They had to re-advertise. I'd be amazed if they got anyone.

I'd love to see this developed as a film.Deafness aside the parent/family dynamic was interesting.Am I alone on hearing that the mother had an affair and Libby was the result and yet her husband and her were still together.