Instamums 4

[mammyoftwo]

Following on from Instamums 3.2

I'm not an anxious or hysterical mother either, Scipio, but I have something these instamums don't have: adult children.

I joined FB about ten years ago, when my children were in their teens, and even back in the early days of social media they weren't keen on me sharing their photo or anecdotes about them. One as an adult is scrupulously careful with their online footprint and even reported a group family photo I posted to FB to have it taken down.

Children, even small children, are entitled to privacy and their own autonomous digital footprint.

So many instafamilies will implode once the children reach the age of proper consent.

Also, twelve years of age is when children start to fully grasp the concept of advertising.

I always think that if we saw a suspicious looking bloke hiding in the bushes and taking photos of our children at the park or beach, most of us would call the police. Yet there are parents posting photos on Instagram of their toddler daughters in the bath for their thousands upon thousands of followers. I can't actually get my mind around it!

Well said @auditqueen

There are some iGers/bloggers who have given up their jobs and are doing this full time and yet we can't treat them as professionals?

I wonder if they don't pay tax on their earnings HMRC will take 'I'm just learning!' as excuse

As others have said, there are guidelines out there for parents and children from the Government, the NSPCC, Ceops etc around the safe use of social media for and with children. Even people defending the instamums appear to follow these guidelines themselves. Why are all these bodies expressing concern if there is no danger.

Just as an example. I've worked with fixated individuals within the mental health system. It is far more common than you might think for someone to fixate on a prominent individual. Some convince themselves that they are in a relationship with that person, or best friends. Others that they have been wronged by them. Still more imagine elaborate conspiracies featuring that individual. They will write and email but will also turn up in the public places they know they might find them, and their homes if they can find them. They can be violent.

Would you want to expose your children (blimey, even yourself) to this attention? Instagram goes that step further by encouraging the illusion of intimacy. The fixated individual may have had some relatively normal interaction at the outset which has fed into an irrational fixation. Do you want your kids to be recognisable in the street to someone who has decided you have wronged them and they want to hurt you?

I think many different arguments and discussions are being conflated here.

I don’t think it is the responsibility of an individual instagrammer as to whether people get into debt trying to look like them. I follow accounts of people who clearly have way more money than me and I know I can’t afford that lifestyle. It doesn’t bother me & I follow for the escapism. As long as they are declaring the relationships with the brands they work with in any context I’m hAppy. I certainly wouldn’t blame them for any debt I incurred buying nice things I saw. My spending is my own responsibility.

As is managing the comparing of my life to others. I have friends with far larger disposable income than me who always have new clothes and nice toiletries (for example) but I don’t blame them if I end up putting too many purchases on my credit card.

And for those saying that MNers looking up the 'private' details of the IGers are weirdos, you are totally missing the point. The MNers are doing that to demonstrate that the IGers have sacrificed enough to privacy to make it possible. A real 'weirdo' can also do it, and the consequences could be serious. If someone on IG doesn't want someone looking at their feed to know where they live, where they shop, where their kids go to school, then it's down to them to prevent that, not to tell people off for paying attention.

Yes, ‘I’m just learning, just like everyone else!’ I’m a teacher. ‘Sorry I taught the wrong syllabus last year after it had changed, because I didn’t have the headspace for it, and everyone failed their exams! I’m just learning.’ As I’ve said before, faux-feminist sisterhood nonsense which is embarrassing to women in my opinion.

Madame I agree with you; I mentioned not being ‘hysterical’ as I am often aware that I have friends who are more worried about a man near the school etc. I am not naive about it - Catholic upbringing where far too much faith and trust was given to those in authority, etc. I’m also aware that I may still be sharing too much of my son on SM and am going to make some changes inspired by the discussion on these threads.

Re the "exploitation" of children on insta accounts and mumsnetters concerns for their safety what is your opinion of reality shows? There are numerous tv shows featuring celeb and reality show stars children.

For example Tamara's World, Sam & Billie's The Mummy Dairies, Born in Chelsea and many more.

Were all well aware how Disney kids have ended up.

As long as they are declaring the relationships with the brands they work with in any context I’m hAppy

I think this is something everyone agrees with but that’s the whole problem - Most of them aren’t. The rest are peddling a fake lifestyle.

Would it help matters if I came on here and said I was Nat, or Cat, or Bethie, or Anna or Susie? Why, exactly? So you want to have a nose around my profile and see if I'm doing the things that you all want Instagrammers to do, and check that I'm an actual human and not a fangirl, like a lot of you are? And yes, I'm using their names instead of their "handles" because they're friends and good people, not to show off, which I'm sure Pavlova would like to assume.

It doesn't matter who I am, but words matter more, right? I don't know who you all are, and I don't care. I care more about the stuff that's said.

I came on here originally a year ago during the whole "Instagram/Courtney Adamo/Bellygate" thread because Bethie came under personal attack (someone commented that they thought her kids were 'boring' and 'unattractive'), and she texted me that night in floods of tears (I'm sure some of you will run to find that thread now, lol). It reeked of such mean girl behaviour, and I felt bad for her. Since then, I've found a lot of Mumsnet to be toxic.

So, I tried to come on here again and say something positive first, which addresses the ASA guidelines and that it's a very important point to adhere to them (no one seemed to notice that), but I also came on here to encourage people to back off the nasty a bit.

But, you'd rather speculate as to who I am and what following I have and snipe about the fact that I have an agenda because my husband works in advertising and we have good jobs.

No worries. I said what I came here to, and I'm sure this thread will have more iterations and will go in circles for a while. Good luck with that. Have a great weekend.

I envisage a real backlash against social media by today's generation of children. Already kids are mainly using Snapchat where the message disappears.

Can you just imagine getting to high school, googling your own name, clicking on images, and scrolling through hundreds of public photos of yourself, documenting your life from the day you were born??

Bye KitKat have a peaceful weekend

I have no idea who Bethie is, but I think you just proved your own point about why having your children on your SM isn’t such a great idea.

I don't think Disney Kids is the same at all. That to me is more along the lines of pushy parents who put their kids forward for child modelling or drama school and tv parts.

@kitkat1002 I could not give a monkeys who you are, if I followed you, I would unfollow as you've been very bitchy to those with genuine discussion and used the worst kind of arguments (it the followers responsibility and we are all learning) you don't write like an instagrammer and you have no engagement so I imagine you are a want to be. No idea who Bethie is, or Nat of Cat and Susie is very bitchy so I don't follow.

I think the same about all famous people whose kids are recognisable through media exposure - it's unwise. In response to SofiaLemon that is.

I think it was entirely unnecessary for anyone to make personal comments about Bethie's children, and whoever did should be ashamed of themselves.

Pressed too soon. BUT unpleasant comments are only one of the possible results of featuring your kids on social media.

I think the children 'consenting' is interesting. I mean I can see how it would be very easy to manipulate a child into consenting to having their image on Instagram, eg, darling - do you want to go on a lovely holiday and all you have to do is have a few photos taken. A lot of children would happily do that because they aren't giving informed consent as they are obviously children.

Personally I would like to see more regulation about how much children can be used and if their images are used in ads then a proportion of the income they have generated should go into a trust/account for them.

I have no envy for the lifestyle of anyone on Instagram - like many people I can afford to buy nice stuff and if anything brands that do a lot of gifting tend to go on my avoid list.

No idea who Bethie is, but if she texted you, you must be BFF's 🙄

Whoever asked about reality stars, I feel exactly the same about them using kids to grow their brand as I do about the grammers.

Bethie is Hungermama.

@madamegrizzly my teenager received snapchats from girls in a school assembly (phones banned...) saying 'fuck off and die ugly bitch'
I saw it as she was ill at home but she was terrified to screenshot it, because they would know.

I think there’s a few things that get blurred on SM.
There are points on this thread that do exactly the same thing: when something is a fact and when something is an opinion.
It’s very important to look at some of the key facts:
• child protection.
I think the adage ‘I do it, and nothing has happened’ is naive and opinion only. Bit like your mum telling you you weren’t in car seats but ‘you all survived’...
• we have absolutely no idea what the current force of SM means for the future.
(My opinion) I’ve certainly really addressed what I’ve shared since following this thread, and I am making changes.
This is really difficult as my child passed away (not a child protection issue btw) so I have received an immense sense of support, and also, I feel like I have documentation of his life. To know he mattered is a powerful force.
• declaring ads and gifts according to law
• the responsibility as an influencer to be aware of your influence
(My opinion) if you aren’t, isn’t it just a self important echo chamber? I’m not saying edit and change who you are, but awareness that not everyone lives your life, and how your words can be construed when you have a large following is vital.
• when intention and delivery (and reception) all gets muddled up.
(My opinion) Or am I claiming a fact? See I’m unsure...
Most people want to be liked and likeable. I’m fairly sure this applies to all of us, and especially the large accounts. I don’t doubt that somewhere the intention at the start is good, and does continue, but as soon as that delivery gets affected by striving to increase following for the sake of influencing, it will be questioned.
Past a certain number of followers, how can it be really authentic? I don’t know the answer...

I’m already thinking that the tone of this may read as patronising, or insulting, which is the crux of the matter. My intention isn’t that at all. I do think that actually IG stories has helped with that in a round about way.

Never heard of Hungermama. Kitkats engagement was hardly that of MP.

Social media has a lot to answer for and I also think there will be a generation of low esteem children and adults because of it very soon.

Posting on social media allows the world and its mate to look in the the personal corners of your life. It allows preditors, con artists, to have access to our most vulnerable in society. Grooming through these sites is very real and I’m going to keep off them so they are not a ‘thing’ in our house so my young girls don’t get as hooked as I did.

Re the "exploitation" of children on insta accounts and mumsnetters concerns for their safety what is your opinion of reality shows?

I don't agree with these types of programs and I can honestly think of nothing more boring to watch on television.

However, I imagine the reality TV children have a contract to appear in these shows and they may even have an independent agent/lawyer. There would be regulations about the amount of time spent filming and the earnings to be put in trust for them. I suppose the producer would have the final say on what is aired, so another independent adult involved.

As it is a regulated environment reality TV children may actually be less exploited than Instagram children.

A starting point for Instagram children could be an independent agent and lawyer to negotiate a contract that stipulates the type and amount of content created and sets aside a portion of earningsin trust. I still wouldn't agree with business model but it would be a tad less exploitative.

But can you imagine the outrage?