What is racism

[lakeg]

After being called a racist yesterday, i really want to know what makes a racist comment.

Carly I am sorry that happened. What a shitty thing to say to a young girl.
I'm white, raising white kids, in London, it's diverse (obv) but doesn't stop them seeing white as the norm. We have conversations about this stuff. I think one of the easiest things white people can do is have literature, art, poetry, stories, history books about and by people of colour, in their houses so kids get to see more than one view.
I'm not looking for a cookie btw just offering a way white people can help with fading out these micro agressions.

My daughters attend a school where only 2 children are not white. I've been hauled in twice now for my children's 'racism' which was absolute bollocks. One girl who is black objected to being described as such and insisted she's caramel The older year 6 girl is a dreadful bully and 2/3s of the class or their parents have complained but school do nothing because they are scared of being called racist. If my younger daughter describes the caramel girl as having brown skin (a description in my book and not used in a derogatory sense, just discussing the colouring of the friend group including eye colour) then she is called racist.

Intent is usually obvious, so if you say, eg, "your hair looks great today." and mean it, i doubt the recipient is going to hate it.

@KaliforniaDreamz not at all - it was a long time ago and the teacher has since passed away so I hold no grudge.

I think it's great that you are doing so much to educate your kids about people's differences. As long as they see these books as a part of every day life and aren't told they're there just because they 'need to know about non-white people' I see nothing but good coming from that. Must say though it's a shame that these books aren't on shelves ordinarily and need to be put there simply to educate!

I used to work in a bookshop and we had a section of 'Black Literature' always made me feel a bit, ummm...
They're just dotted about here.
My eldest will cover civil rights as part of History GSCE and he already knows he'll need to supplement any teaching!! Those are the times i feel it necessary to seek out stuff for him and to know why it's being sought out.

I'm white with tight long ringlet curls and people think they have the right to touch it all the time, it drives me insane. I don't think it's a black/white thing, it's a curl thing.
I have a simple approach to racism, I treat everybody the same, if I'm curious about some part of them I will ask, asking if Afro hair is high maintenance isn't racist.
My 87 year old grandmother has a simple answer when asked about racism, she says we are all the same underneath if our skin is peeled off which is refreshing from somebody of that generation. I grew up in South London in a very racially diverse community, Black, Asian, Chinese, Bangladeshi. People are just people to me.
I think some people overthink rascism and it's not the ethnic minorities, it's the white people desperately trying to be PC.

Drained treating people with respect is one thing, denying identity is another. And you don't get to define racism.

Where did the -racist- OP go?

@Drainedandconfused curiosity does not mean you deserve or are entitled to ask, let alone receive an answer. Many times in my life I've been put on the spot about my ethnicity and it's uncomfortable and not appropriate in many contexts, especially when I don't know the person well. If people are so keen to learn about other cultures, pick up a book and learn - the onus is not on minorities to fulfil all your curiosities.

Asking 'is your hair high maintenance' is rude in my opinion. I wouldn't ask anyone if their manicure or figure or makeup was high maintenance and I think the same courtesy should be extended to black people re their hair. I don't deserve to ask questions like that just because I can't personally relate.

The issue with prejudice is that it is often unintentional and born from ignorance rather than hate. If we call people out on it and call them racist, the only thing that happens is that they get defensive.

To them, racists are people that intend to hurt others based on prejudice so they can't be racist because there's no intent.

We need to be having proper, polite discussions about why what has been said is unacceptable so that people actually listen and don't feel attacked.

I don't think calling someone a racist actually helps them stop being one, it just makes them think you're insulting and OTT so you'll just be dismissed.

My points are speaking generally of course, there's nothing that can be done here without knowing what was said.

Thisismeagain - I think you and I must look similar... people regularly ask if I’m: Greek, Italian, Spanish, Brazilian, Moroccan, or from one of many middle-eastern places.

The owner of our local Italian calls me ‘sister’ and is convinced I’m Italian.

I’m not. I’m half black Caribbean and half white English.

Over the years I’ve been privy to lots of racist comments people would not normally make in front of a black person because of their assumptions about my heritage.

If I had a pound for every time someone said ‘oh, I don’t mean you though’ when I’ve called them out I’d be rich.

But it’s an oddity as people think I’m disingenuous if I describe myself as black/mixed race and I’m definitely not white. But my heritage is important to me and shaped who I am so I won’t ignore it to make my life easier.

Also, at what point do you ‘ignore’ the black? Just to be clear, I don’t want to but I think about my son - he’s blue eyed, reddish haired and very pale - I think people will think he’s a bit mad talking about his black mother...

Deer...... my DS is chronically disabled, he has Down Syndrome and autism, plenty of people ask me questions about him and I am more than happy to answer them, it's curiosity and by answering their questions it might help stop discrimination against disabled people or maybe I'm just naive.
I could tell people to pick up a book or google Down Syndrome and autism but I'd rather answer people directly. For me it's all about awareness whether it's somebody's skin colour, culture or disability. I've seen plenty of discrimination towards my DS so I do have some sort of understanding.
KaliforniaDreamz..... I'm not defining racism, I'm giving my own personal opinion, whether that's right or wrong I don't know. Also I would never deny anybody their identity whatever race, religion, sex or sexual preference, I very much prefer to live and let live, respect others and try to not offend or upset anybody whoever they are with ignorant comments. Simple human curiosity is a good thing in my opinion.

I think there's a branch of racism that's malicious and deliberate, and another branch that's more inadvertent or ignorant.

No doubt, they're both harmful to the recipient but I don't think many people think beyond the media version of openly aggressive racism (skinhead, nazi tattooes, racist insults etc).

Often, I see a major miscommunication between individuals where the person being accused is only thinking of the malicious version of racism. Of course, they know internally they have no bad intent and so they get hurt or file the person accusing into the 'oversensitive' or just 'plain wrong' box.

On the other hand, most accusations I've seen made are more about the accidental/ignorant type of racism. What's the point in telling someone they're racist when they're proudly and openly hostile against you and likely identify themselves as racist? It's usually the well-meaning but ignorant comments that get pulled up.

It's these same commentors who are likely to feel aggrieved at being accused of racism (in their mind - defined as only the hostile/hating type), and not understand that it is not as blatant as that, nor are their intentions being painted so badly. I think a lot of people would be less defensive if this was better understood.

I was in a queue recently and a young Chinese girl with downs syndrome walked past. A young African woman with said to her friend " I didn't know you could get Chinkie downies" and carried on chatting. Her friend just carried on the conversation with her. It appears that other races can be racist towards each other.

Why on earth couldn't other races be racist towards each other!??!

@tillytoodles1 what's your point exactly?

My point is that it seems to be white people picking on other races, but other people seem to get away with it. What the girl said was appalling.

@tillytoodles1 of course anyone can be racist. Racism is racism? It was just a very random comment that's all as it has nothing to do with this thread.

It appears that other races can be racist towards each other.

Well that's quite the revelation

Your post is nonsense. It illustrates quite well why people are afraid to discuss these topics. Basically, you have created a category of stuff which YOU say is very bad and anyone who is confused about it or disagrees also becomes very bad.

You are a witch finder. And not liberal in any way, shape or form.

lakeg We have to know what it was you said now. YABVVU not telling us.

You are not worried people will think you racist? My bullcrap radar is going loudly, for some reason.

I think racism can be intentional or it can be an ignorant insensitive comment. I think the latter can depend on context. FWIW, my view is:

What racism is NOT:

-saying to a black person their afro is beautiful

-asking someone "where are you from" or "have you lived here long?" Once I was making casua conversation on the bus with a woman who happened to be Chinese. Now, I am not an extrovert and I can be socially very awkward but I was in a hyped up mood (long story). I just said to her "So have you lived in Bradford long?" I honestly was not even thinking of her colour at this point. Suddenly another lady on the bus yells "You shouldn't ask her things like that, she is Chinese FGS!" I was tempted to say to her "Yeah, I know, I may be unable to walk but I do have eyes" (my disability isn't really relevant here, tbh, except that this yelling lady had been having a go at me for taking a disabled seat (hidden disability) and ranting at fat lazy people who take up seats needed for handicapped people etc. I think she was abit odd, to be honest. Anyhoo, I do nto think what I said was racist at all.

• Enjoying and wearing aspects of other cultures and their fashion trends, hairstyles etc, providing you acknowledge that these fashions have a history and minority groups have often suffered for them

What racism IS:

• refusing a job/housing/membership of a country club etc due to someone's race

• verbal or physical abuse towards someone because of their race eg the n word.

• prejudice- "all middle easterners are terrorists, jihadists etc" " all gypsies are thieves", " all Irish are stupid"

KaliforniaDreamz I cannot see where or how Drained denied anyone's identity.

I really am not being goady, I just cannot see it. Have I missed something?

Drained I am like you. I see people as people. Sure, I acknowledge how minority groups have a hard time. But there race is only one part of them. An important part, yes, but why bring up their race in every casual conversation? Do minorities really want to have everything about them defined through a lense of being a victim of racism? I am disabled. It is a big part of my experience. Does it mean I see every interaction through the lens of identity and discrimination? Maybe I just want to be seen as IPeed not just as someone who is disadvantaged or "other."