What is racism

[lakeg]

After being called a racist yesterday, i really want to know what makes a racist comment.

Op, it's good that you are reflecting on yesterday's thread but can you really not see that your comments were generalising?

@QuiteLikely5 I find that quite bizarre. If I said to a white person 'your curls are beautiful' I am 100% sure it wouldn't be classed as racism. I have experienced true racism, I've been spat at, been called the n word, I've been told to straighten my hair and 'go back to where I came from'. These were all extremely hurtful and I believe I had every right to call this racism.

Being told my hair is beautiful? Just, no.

@Catspaws I must admit that it really ticks me off when people ask to touch my hair. Again, it isn't so much racism (more likely stupidity and ignorance). If I walked up to a stranger with straight hair and asked them if I could touch it can you imagine the response I would get?!

The OP said the following in the context of a mother not allowing her 12yo DD go to a cafe in an area where many cafes are run by Muslims (so less chance of them drinking alcohol) with a friend.

*I just read about Telford
You said the restaurants in your area are run by a certain community

I am concerned. Maybe that is her problem.*

I would say that implying that all Muslims paedophiles is racist!

people should be wary of restaurants run by ‘a certain community’. That is racist

Not only racist but downright dangerous.

The publicity about the large grooming trials may have focused on teams of South Asian ethnicity men but in the overall stats for abuse, girls are more likely to be abused by white men, and especially white men known to them or their families.

They don't appear in the press so often though as there are so many of them.

Honestly, I did not know black people could not tan or blush until I was 12 and an African girl at school told me. Things were so much less complicated then. It was a boarding school and there were lots of African girls there and they used to do their white friends hair in cornrows in the summer. And the Chinese girls used to show us how to deal with our spots with toothpaste. And the Asian girls used to do Henna tattoos. I think all that would be cultural appropriation now. In some ways I don’t think the obsession with identity is making things easier for anybody. It’s usually better to forget or celebrate our differences rather than fixate on them.

Carly that is reassuring to know. I still don’t think I would dare mention it.

There was a thread here a while back and posters were saying that they found it offensive and some were upset that people asked where they were from because of their accent.

It shook me to be honest. Like I said I thought I’d been ignorant.

I still think it’s probably safer not to mention anything because I suppose I wouldn’t know how a person would take it

@Marylou2 In that case, it's highly unprofessional for senior management to reference someone's race (or whatever it is) at a meeting in that context. How bizarre.

@Mightymucks just for reference, black people can blush and tan.

I think what you're touching on is a very sensitive issue. It's not a case of people being obsessed with identity, people are trying to find the identities they didn't feel like they had for such a long time. My father grew up in the 60s/70s in Dalston and trust me, identity is something he's only discovered in the past decade or two. I don't think it's as simple as you make it out to be.

Probably should not be posting here but does anyone else find a difference between sick
gangs and sick individuals

I’d never ask to touch someone’s hair but like I say I feel it’s better not to mention anything. It’s not just hair, its other things to.

Like I said it’s better not to mention anything as even though it’s innocent it could be ignorant

I grew up in Dalston in the 80s, I may well know him! The girl I went to school with was adamant black people couldn’t blush. Maybe she wasn’t accurate.

But I do remember growing up and particularly in the late 90s and early 00s we seemed to have got to a good place with race with anti-discrimination and work to end disadvantage and a message of unity.

At the moment the messages from all sides seem to be incredibly hostile and divisive.

Perroy what are you on about?

@QuiteLikely5 just remember that people who do get upset about comments such as these have most likely experienced racism in their lives and are ultra sensitive to their race. Racism can leave an indelible mark and can cause life long pain.

Just rest assured that asking about an accent, complimenting hair, asking where someone is from etc is not racism in the slightest. It's when it goes beyond this is when it becomes an issue. I've been asked 'where are you from?' and responded with 'England, UK' at which point they said 'no but where are you really from?' This, I saw an issue with because they couldn't possibly believe that I was from the UK! Again however, I put this down to some severe ignorance, not racism.

I think there are very fine lines between racism, ignorance and a very low IQ.

@Mightymucks you may well! What a small world.

You're right, things have changed significantly and I am still shocked by some of the stories he's told me about his childhood as a black male.

I wouldn't look on the past with rose-tinted glasses - things were not 'simpler', people just got away with more. I'm an Agatha Christie fan but her writing is reflective of a time in which it was acceptable to refer to people using awful terms. I'm glad we're more alive to the damage language and entrenched privilege can do, but we still have a long, long way to go.
Another point is also that you may not think it's racist to comment on people's accents/appearance but it's very tiring to be on the receiving end of these comments and entrenches the notion of whiteness as the default and anything else as 'exotic', and has the effect of constantly Othering people.

I’m not talking as far back as Christie, I’m talking ten years ago.

There is a message of seperatism from all sides IMO and I don’t think the current preoccupation with race, which seems to assume the colour of your skin is the most important part of your identity, is helpful.

'Othering' of people with afro hair wanting to touch it etc, does have a drip drip of hurt. these are called micro aggressions.
cultural appropriation is harmful.
Black girls have been sent home from school in SOUTH AFRICA for wearing their hair naturally. Imagine how galling it must be to watch white girls play with corn rows or dreds for fun at festivals or on thie Gap year or their long haul expensive holidays knowing their privilege will never stop them getting jobs.

Black girls have been sent home from school in SOUTH AFRICA for wearing their hair naturally.
KaliforniaDreamz please do explain more.

www.elitedaily.com/life/culture/black-girls-natural-hair-racism-schools/1953497

these are examples of girls being penalised for wearing their hair naturally.
i think SA is mentioned in the second example.

See although it would not interest me to touch someone’s hair

White, black whatever your race if someone wanted to touch my hair I would not mind at all.

If everyone is the same then what’s the difference?

@KaliforniaDreamz believe it or not, I am only 27 and was sent to the bathroom with a tiny little hair band and no hairbrush when I was 14 and told to tie my hair up because it was 'inappropriate'. I think it was one of the most hurtful things that ever happened to me at school.

@perroy exactly that. Black girls in SA were banned from wearing their hair in its natural state I believe towards the end of 2016. They were told their hair needed to be 'tamed' and was 'too exotic' for school.

thank you

I think the racist card is pulled out when people do not want to discuss real problems

Tends to be a go to phrase of racists tbh

@Mightymucks the same criticism has been levelled at the LGBQTI movement, that they make their sexuality their defining trait. I don't believe this to be the case - people have been mistreated for so long that assertion of identity and speaking out about micro-aggressions is important. If we were at a point where racism had been eliminated we might be able to be quiet then, but we're nowhere near that. In fact what has unfortunately happened now is that crude forms of racism get disproportionate focus while long-standing structural forms of racism can easily go unnoticed.

@QuiteLikely5 I think it's great that you are as open minded as you are, but I can imagine if I conducted a social experiment in the middle of London tomorrow the vast majority of people would object to me touching their hair!