Instamums 3, 2.0

[blackmirror1]

Seeing as the original 3 got zapped.

It doesn't strike me as controversial that ethically bloggers or instamums or whatever should be more transparent about their proposition and when things are a paid advert etc. And I think it is good that these types of threads make clear the tactics used in this type of advertising so that people are more informed (even if the personal tenor if some comments doesn't sit well with me).

However it seems to me that a degree of savvyness is also called for on the part of users. I follow a couple of instamums because, just like a magazine or slick American tv show, I occasionally like looking at glossy pictures of pretty scenery, houses, people etc. Just like a magazine I fully assume most things are 'on sale' or product placement. It doesn't make the product bad necesssarily but influences how I approach it. Perhaps though it's because I have come to it late and never felt a 'personal connection' with either the people or issues involved. I can see the issue is sharpened where blogs or whatever have started at a very personal level and then become commercialised and it's not apparent to the user when this switch has happened.

Tbh, the way this thread is going, I wouldn't be bothered if Mumsnet took it down. Some of the comments posted on here overnight are slanderous.

Criticism and outright slander are two very different things.

I agree it is slander and absolutely disgusting!

You do not casually question someones professional intergrity which has no basis when it could potentially end their careers.

Some are over invested in these people lives.

Does seem odd that overnight people become so personal.

There’s an awful lot of sock puppets on here this morning

Hope this thread gets shut down.

I find the whole instamum phenomenon fascinating, but this is now potentially career damaging for people.

To be clear, the NMC investigate every allegation, no matter how spurious. This usually takes 2 years or so as there is a huge backlog.

Some HCP spend 2 yrs out of work. Full pay only lasts so long. People take their own lives rather than await an outcome. It is life destroying.

The NMC won’t be scouring mumsnet threads for “allegations”, stop over dramatising it. Mumsnet need to remove some of the posts and everyone needs to calm down.

Most of this thread is completely reasonable and not libellous. There are clearly some people who’d like it shut down by over-stating that side of it. This would help fully remove all the valid criticism too. I hope Mumsnet will be judicious in what if anything is deleted.

Of course the NMC aren't doing that. But there are some rather mean people on this thread.

Such a shame this thread has got deraiiled.

Re celebrity i read about them and their kids in a magazine.
I feel very sort of distanced from them and theif lifestyle as i dont havev their lifestyle contacts or money and never will.
I can admire and think ahh how cute i dint know where jools Oliver's kids go to school.

Another thing worth mentioning and jamie oliver is perfect example.

Sometimes celebrities can be overexposed.
Jamies in past been very good at doing a campaign or series then disappearing for a while where as reality stars and insta mums always have to stay inbthe oiblic eye to extent they posting when their baby is sick in hospital or not taking a decent maternity leave.

With intsa mums especially ones who started off more small and normal we feel we have a more personal connection with them.
That we can have same things that we are similar its sad so many women some through pnd get into financial trouble copying them in hope it makes them happy or a good mum.

We just need clear advertising.

In the case if insta many things appear on stories then disappear after 24hours so we never sure where as things in a square are sometimes better listed.

In the case of mrs meldrum i can think 2 things she got for free that she declared on you tube she got for free or were ads on you tube.

However they featured on insta photos and stories and it was not mentioned the cosaatto giggle pram was sent to her but it was product placed in stories or photo.
She always raves anout her joolz which i think she did pay for and uses cossatto for holiday so unsure from cossatto point of veiw what they gained.

More recently shes had fisher proce play activity station seen lots in vlogs and possibly insta but shes only jjst done a video on it saying ad.
So the truth does out.
She does get sent lots gifts from Small insta companies but she thanks them mostly on stories so again dissapears after 24hours.
Only the big brands seem to get a a square.

Recent post lucy jessica carter mentioning bodyshop doesnt say spon/ad or gifted made me wonder does she generally lime and paid for these products or were they free?
Was on her insta square.

I stopped following many that i felt i couldent relate to even fashion ones as made me feel bit rubbish.

A couple of us suggested that MOD's responses on MP's post yesterday showed a lack of brains (and I've asked for mine to be deleted). One person got carried away in relation to the career stuff and I got the impression they were impassioned by the child safety issue. If you don't like a post, you should report it, rather than making dramatic pronouncements about the legality of it.

Well MOD and FOD have been quite quiet over past few days

Maybe they are re-evaluating

As I understand it, these threads were set up to raise some very valid and important questions about the lack of transparency and ethical practice in the partnerships between brands and Instamums. Great. It's an important issue and many posters state that they now look at those accounts with fresh eyes.

However, let's be honest - everyone enjoys a good bitch. There are certain posters for whom these threads are just a deeply satisfying forum to bitch about some women that they don't like very much. I don't think that these posters are 'jealous' or 'bitter' but I do think that they need to to own their bitchiness and not claim that every single point is valid and in the public interest because MOD and others 'put themselves out there'.

On this thread alone, MOD has been called 'thick' multiple times by multiple posters; someone has speculated about the state of her marriage and someone else has hinted darkly that they have information about this; there has been extensive speculation about her background and education; and now her professional integrity and fitness to practice in her job have been questioned. I don't blame her for not engaging (and it is worth noting that she has engaged at length on the rather less personal Bloggers & Brands threads in S&B) and I frankly wouldn't blame her for consulting a lawyer.

These threads could be a powerful force to lobby Instamums and the ASA. Those posters who are muddying the waters with cheap, personal attacks need to consider their motives.

Interesting point 3as in terms of the limitations of the admission that something is an ad: some instamums may use stories in order to be covert about whether they’ve been given something for free (so that it disappears within 24 hours), but even if they properly acknowledge it in a photo, how many times are they going to do that? By the time they’ve had it 6 months and it’s in a random photo and a follower says ‘where did you get that?’, are they still obliged to say it was ‘gifted’? I think they should be but I wonder how often people do.

I would not be surprised if that person or their team, seeks legal advice on some of the things written on here.

Well, while she's there maybe she can check with them about the rules and regs surrounding advertising and using your kids for monetary gain.

Apart from that, I think I'm stepping away from these threads for a while. We've all said what we've had to say and most people have put their points across quite clearly. It's obvious that some people are trying to shut the debate down and the tactics that they're using are becoming more and more obvious. It's telling that some posters are more outraged about ridiculous claims of unprofessionalism (that will be deleted as soon as MNHQ get the chance) than they are about the safety and morality of using young children for financial gain.

I commented last night about MoD as she's the only Instagram person I know anything about and I wondered whether I should actually as I didn't think all the personal posts really cover this thread in glory. But it's awful to see people piling on as they have done in the past 100 posts. Of course she hasn't done anything that would bother the NMC. What nonsense.

Brummymummyof2 is very good. She was very clear that she was giving up her teaching job to do her online stuff and that she was earning the equivalent amount as a head of dept in teaching. She’s also put a blog post on about how she earns her money (this was a while ago) and has now reposted that on her stories.

I don’t begrudge any of the instamums doing what they do and getting their freebies. Yes, there may be questions over the ethics of using your family to build a brand, but like anything else in parenting, I try not to judge. And I certainly wouldn’t turn down a free holiday if it was offered!

Is the assumption that some of the wilder posts are sock puppetry to get the thread closed down? If that's true then it's another nail in the coffin of reasoned discussion.

fruitbowl I disagree. People who casually slander someones profession and question their integrity should be called out on these thread.

I'd like to see a HCP who isn't bothered about someone casually posting slander about them on the internet.

We don't know who read these threads.

BuxBaum I have 'owned' my mistake. I don't like the word bitchy being used about women (or men, if it ever is). I got carried away. What I meant was that MOD's comments on MP's post were entirely missing the point. I can't speak for the other personal comments, and do entirely disagree with those about their professionalism in their actual jobs, but I do think MOFOD and others would be better placed consulting media lawyers about understanding advertising rules, rather than petty comments on MN.

I really do think it's time this thread ended now. No one is coming out of it particularly well.

It's just such a shame it keeps slipping into back biting and name calling. And then you wonder why people keep getting called haters and trolls?!

Is there really anything more to add to the discussion after the thousand and thousands of points already made? It now just looks like people are just enjoying it a bit too much and becoming overly invested (which is a shame given that a lot of the discussion was actually very interesting).