To think my parents are making a mistake?

[FizzyCherry]

My parents are both of retirement age, Mum is 69, Dad is 72.
Due to various reasons they didn’t get a mortgage until 20 years ago and both still work to pay it off, but they have at least 7 years left on it.

They have decided they want to retire, sell the house and buy a static home at a holiday park. They’re convinced it’s their ideal solution.

I totally understand their logic but I can’t help feeling they are being lured into a situation they will end up regretting.

If they sell the house, they can clear the mortgage and buy a static home outright with money left over.

However, they still have to pay the equivalent of 2/3 of their mortgage in ground rent and various other fees.
The park has swimming pool, gym etc, they are “free to use” - but that’s another £120 a month membership (!)
They must vacate their home for the whole of February every year so the site residents can avoid council tax.
Plus a friend of theirs lived somewhere similar that the owner decided to sell to developers. They were given £45,000 to “buy somewhere new”, after having lived there 10 years. They only owned the home, not the land, so that actually wasn’t a bad offer, but obviously nowhere near enough to start again.
So although they won’t have a mortgage, their outgoings will still be quite high, and they won’t have the same income, and they will need at least one car because this place is in the middle of nowhere. Plus at the end of the day, they will have nothing to show for it.

I have visited and it’s nice, but I think they are so attracted to the idea of living on a holiday park they are not seeing the full picture.

In addition, it’s in the countryside, where my mum has always insisted she could never live.

I asked if they would even consider this village if they were looking at houses, they said not for a second.

I fully support them in needing to make a move (and the house they’re in they only bought when I was 20, I only lived there 2 years so there’s no childhood sentiments involved).
Nor is this about inheritance before anyone says anything.
Although we’re not well off now, my husband stands to inherit quite well and my parents have never had much, plus have several kids, so it’s never been something we really think about,

But AIBU to be wary of this solution? Their current house is five minutes from mine and they are convinced that I’m trying to put them off because it’s convenient for babysitting etc but I genuinely am not remotely thinking about me or my needs, I’m an adult who can sort my own life.

I haven’t told them this but my husband and I have been trying to work out a way to help my parents pay the mortgage off but we’re just not in that position right now.
Nor can we offer them a spare room for February every year, we don’t have one. Nor do my siblings (one does but he lives abroad and my parents don’t like flying so he comes here for visits).

I suppose what I’m looking for is reassurance that I am BU, or at least more experiences of why I’m not.

I have suggested they look at retirement flats etc, my mum thinks they are for “old people”.

They like their house and would stay if they could afford it.

WWYD?

This is what friends of mine did. They retired to a mobile home park near the sea but not near enough by foot. They were stuck on the park, had to drive everywhere because it was on main thoroughfare. The owner of the land sold it to a developer and they had to leave, they were rehoused and had no money left. They couldn't sell the home so had to leave it on the land and it was scrapped.

We tried to talk them out of it but sadly they wouldn't listen; but lived to regret it.

Of course it is up to your parents what they do but living in a static is no picnic. If they want to sell the caravan at some stage it will have decreased in value tremendously. Take this from someone who knows!!!

Is there no way they could continue paying their mortgage for seven more years? Maybe take in a lodger or perhaps someone in the family could lend them some money? I don't know what their pension status is but they will know how much they'll get when they retire.

Another solution might be to semi-retire so they are still earning and getting pension.

You are right to be concerned.

Excellent poins from Kew on page 5 and TheFirstMrsDV on page 6 and others (not read them all).

Well, it's not "The park has swimming pool, gym etc, they are “free to use” if "that’s another £120 a month membership (!)"

Do they really need all that? Can they afford that?

"They must vacate their home for the whole of February every year so the site residents can avoid council tax." Ask them, honestly, where will they live?

"it’s in the countryside, where my mum has always insisted she could never live." How will they get to shops etc, if they end up not being able to drive?

"AIBU to be wary of this solution?" Not at all it sounds 100% coockoo to me. I am always wary of people moving away to retire, having built a life and friends in one area. But they are adults.

"I’m an adult who can sort my own life." I think you sound a lot more grown up than them!

"I haven’t told them this but my husband and I have been trying to work out a way to help my parents pay the mortgage off but we’re just not in that position right now." That's very kind of you, if you do that though will your money be completely lost, can you afford it, does your dh agree?

You are totally not being unreasonable, they are being daft and I would predict they will live to regret this.

"I have suggested they look at retirement flats etc, my mum thinks they are for “old people”."

Well they are getting on but I can see that they are not actually really old. My mum moved into a retirement flat, they are expensive, ongoing costs, very hard to sell, only suggest this if they need it.

"They like their house and would stay if they could afford it."

Why can't they continue working part time to pay off mortgage? Or sell it and downsize for a bungalow (yes, expensive I know) or ground floor masonitte

"WWYD?" Talk to them, get them to go on a holiday in winter and spend a week or two in a mobile home with no extra funds for fun days out, or meals out, just them, in their mobile home, watching telly, cooking meals in the small kitchen, in winter, and see if it all seems so idyllic after that.

Plus either show them this thread or cut out comments like ElizaCBennett's comment and show to them. They are making a very big and expensive mistake. Just warn them you won't be able to pick up the pieces.

I don't really get the whole 'it's cold over winter' argument.. the type of static they would be getting will have central heating - my GPIL certainly have no issues with heating their static, in fact it's far too warm for me and I can only cope in there for 10 minutes.

Also, one of them is in a wheelchair and that's exactly what it's designed for - it has 2 large bedrooms and widened corridors to allow for this, as well as a fully disabled adapted bathroom.

I do take on the point about depreciation. Luckily, PIL and GPIL live on a site with a wonderful owner who would never see anyone out of pocket just because their van is old. They also have a great community around them, which has been tested several times when PIL have been on holiday and the GPIL have taken Ill and had to go into hospital.

It's certainly not for everyone but I wanted to let OP know (if they ever come back) that there are instances where it works out for the better.

If your Mum thinks retirement apartments are for "old people" ask her How old is old then? I asked my Mum, she was early 70's at the time, and she hesitated and said Oh Ok, we'll look at retirement places then.
I did say to her, we should look at everything before deciding for sure what kind of place she wanted to live in.
We went with her and looked at cottages (no downstairs loo) Bungalows (seemed overpriced for the size and needed lots of work) then moved onto reirement flats, she hated one place that she had always though looked nice from outside some were OK but too small, and finally we saw the one she bought. She looked at three in the same complex, hated one, liked a second (needed work) loved the one she lives in the minute she went though the front door, so did I.

my Dad lived in a caravan for a while. It was a beaten up old thing and didn’t have central heating. It was always toasty though, I thought it was because it’s a small area to heat up. 💁🏻

I would look into all the options and cost them out for them. Equity release, retirements flats, smaller property, verses their static. Look at costs, quality of life an access to facilities like shops, hospital and Drs. etc.

Luckily, PIL and GPIL live on a site with a wonderful owner who would never see anyone out of pocket just because their van is old.

Let's hope the owner doesn't sell up, retire and pass it on to family or die then.

Park homes are like cars, they only depreciate in value, and they can be a liability if you can’t find a buyer when you need to sell. Bad, bad idea to buy one.

It's a bad idea for so many reasons. Security, ability to move, running costs, lifestyle in later life, and the fact that the site obviously doesn't have planning permission for residential use.

Could they reduce their outgoings by downsizing? putting the mortgage on interest only? Renting it out and renting a caravan?

I'd be concerned too as I know a few people (my own age) with mobile holiday homes and there are periods in winter when not only is it freezing but the water is turned off as it's assumed nobody could possibly be there.

My mum and dad moved into a lodge miles from where they were born and raised. It was the best thing they could of done. The site their on has no club house or any other facilities for holidaymakers. Their looked after well by the site owners plus their bills are way smaller than running a house(always a way round the 11 months thing). They have made lots of friends and my mum has blossomed since joining on site activities, reading group, art class etc. We all worried they were making a mistake but they knew it was for them and went for it. I guess they behaved like adults. There are many people in retirement that move abroad because they enjoyed holidays in that country. Let them go and give them your blessing. If they have to leave in February, that's also there problem to deal with.

My cousin works on a caravan park where people live and leave for a couple weeks a year. I remember when we visited her telling me about an old lady that had lived on the park for years but the rule was your van needed to be less than twenty years old. The poor lady was made homeless as she could not afford to buy a new van.

I’d be concerned for them too if they were my parents

I have seen some of these parks won’t allow static homes over 10 years old and make you remove them when they reach that age they also depreciate rapidly. I looked into buying one as a holiday home and there really were no positives to it in the end. I’d steer clear tbh

I’d be extremely concerned. Those statistics are a nightmare to sell. They’re not mortgageable so makes it difficult for most people to afford. They’ll lose value immediately. I’d suggest they rent their house out and rent a holiday home for 6 months to trial it first. The Winter won’t be a barrel of laughs

I visit kings park (link given earlier) on a regular basis as part of my job. I used to hate it but it has really improved now and all of the people I see there (mostly over 50) love it. There are some smaller caravan type homes but most are just like small bungalows, cosy and warm with all the mod cons you would need, safe and secure with a security person on the gate. It’s a residential park rather than a holiday park though so they don’t have to vacate for a period of time. If your parents could choose somewhere like this then I don’t think it would be a bad idea at all but the holiday park - bad move

Sorry haven't read the whole thread but I just wanted to say normal property is a really good investment as the value goes up over time (even taking account of crashes). I would investigate how good an investment these kind of homes are because they don't last anywhere as long as a normal house so I would imagine they are not a good investment. As an alternative could they not keep their current house but rent it out for half the year and go and stay in one of these static homes instead? I'd definitely discuss this with them as you do not want them to lose out on a really good investment in the interests of their long term financial stability.

Tenure on park home sites is very insecure and the leases have been the subject of many disputes and evictions. I have even heard a Radio Four programme about rogue site owners who drove tenants out so they could put a new home on the site and let it out for more money. They got caught but made life misery for the old folks before the rogues had their comeuppance.

If there is any way your parents can keep their home I would advise them to do so.

Just a thought. A while ago the parents of some friends of ours inquired about releasing equity from their house and were offered £100 a month for, effectively, losing control of the property. My friends stepped in and agreed to give the parents £700 a month on a straight, no-interest sale of the property with the condition that the parents could live there when the property had been purchased (it was worth about £70,000) rent free in perpetuity. It also cut out inheritance tax as the property was already my friends' house when both parents died many years later.

Could you do a deal like this? Pay their mortgage in return for a share of the ownership? As I say, it is very handy when inheritance tax is due - though I do not know what the position would be if your parents needed state aided care.

I haven't read the whole thread....

What about renting a flat from a housing association? Hanover, Anchor and Housing & Care 21 are all specialist not-for-profit housing associations for older people. I think that would be a better option than buying a static caravan personally.

Haven't read the responses but they should be aware that they will have a 15-25 year lease and then they will have to leave and basically any mobile home they have will be sold for scrap and they will be lucky to get 10% of the value paid.
Also site fees can go up.

how much would it cost to replace a caravan when it gets to old for the site?

@stressedoutpa I don't think the OP's parents can rent from a H.A. It's social housing, and they cannot have that if they are homeowners.

@stressedoutpa I don't think the OP's parents can rent from a H.A. It's social housing, and they cannot have that if they are homeowners.

@FizzyCherry

Like a few people on here, me and DH know someone who bought a caravan to live in. She did it as she could no longer cope with her escalating debts, (she could not keep up with the payments, when she had a change in financial circumstances...)

Last Spring, she sold her house for £155K - then paid off her £100K mortgage, and her £50K debts. And then bought a caravan for £45K. (She put £5K down and took a loan out for the rest which the caravan park sorted for her...)

It's in a caravan park in Wales and is a beautiful area, with a lovely view over Snowdonia National Park, and she was cooing about how lucky she is, and 'do we envy her?' (Errr no... the nice area is the ONLY 'advantage!')

From mid April til late June, she was as happy as a pig in shit, until early summertime, when 5 or 6 of the caravans around her started filling up with loud families with 5 to 8 people in each caravan. It lasted 4 months til late October! People yelling, partying, and shouting, and running around her caravan (sometimes knocking on the windows and looking in,...) Every day of the week for 4 months during the summer! And then once the noise calmed down, the cold set in.

She has spent the last 4.5 months freezing almost to death, with the caravan barely reaching 12 degrees C inside. (Some days it was colder, and she has spent half the winter under a duvet and several 'throws.') She was snowed in for 4 or 5 days at a time, at least 5 times, and kept running out of milk and bread and essential supplies. She had to beg, steal, and borrow stuff off other people.

And yeah there IS heating in the caravans, but it's not always that great, and the bloody things are made of metal, and conduct the cold. You seriously have to live in one long term to understand!

The nearest town is 5 miles away, so she always has to drive for the doctors or dentists or pharmacy or shops or ANYthing else. There is not a jot of public transport, and the park is way up a hill, (like 300 feet above sea level at the bottom, and 750 at the top,) and it's a nightmare to drive up there in normal weather, let alone when there is snow and ice.

As has been said, she has to have the caravan park's electric and use their facilities, and has to pay to join the park 'club' where you can play bingo and go to pub quizzes and bowls nights. She has calor gas which costs a shit load, and has ALSO been told that she must buy a new caravan when hers is 7 years old, as that is the maximum age they allow.

The one they sold her is 5 years old. Clever eh? They got £45K off her, and she has to buy a new van in mid 2019. If she is lucky, her current one that she paid £45K for will be worth £25K IF she is lucky.

Oh and she also has to leave the caravan for 3 weeks every year...

I feel sorry for her really, even if she WAS a bit smug last spring. I would not swap places with her for all cheese in the Netherlands.

Oh and YANBU. What your parents are doing is nuts.

Take heed of all these tales on here and maybe even show them this thread. These people who run these parks are running a business and are out to make money, and do not care about the people in the caravans.

I have no idea how this woman we know is going to afford to buy a newer caravan in a year's time. Even if she sells hers for £25-30K, she will still need to find around another £30K on top of that for another one that is only 3 to 4 years old. Heaven knows where that money will come from. She should have stayed where she was.

And as a pp said, tenure is very insecure on these parks, as you own the caravan, but not the land.