IANBU!!! The Scottish Government have stolen the word female. It now includes males

[AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth]

This is a National Scandal

fairplayforwomen.com/scottish_stole_woman/

The Scottish government have redefined the legal meaning of the word "woman". It has now been expanded to include:
"A person who has the protected characteristic of gender reassignment...if, and only if, the person is living as a woman, and is proposing to undergo, is undergoing, or has undergone a process, or part of a process, for the purpose of becoming female

What fucking country do I live in?

@wildduckhunt I hope she makes a full recovery, I can't imagine how hard it is to go through something like that.

I don't disagree that the issues you raise could occur - I just think we can resolve them in a way which also allows for legal gender recognition. It seems to me that the practical solutions to questions of healthcare and medical history can be resolved separately from the ideological question of whether we should recognise trans women as women.

PeanutButterSquash your posts are too long, which is why I've only responded to a few points that I consider particularly important

I don't think they are too long. Maybe your attention span is the problem here?

Your posts are too long accurate which is why I've only responded to a few points + because I have nothing to say to the rest.

Fixed that for you, Ihate!

"Your posts are too long"

Yes, of course that's the reason!

@YetAnotherSpartacus @IanRushesInadequateFlushes

I don't mind accepting that my attention span might be the issue and I don't doubt at all that Peanut's posts are an accurate reflection of her own experiences and opinions. But hers isn't the only voice in this debate and the main thing I wanted to convey is that while I totally respect her right to hold the views she does and campaign for the things she believes in, I have listened to many many trans and cis women on this subject and I don't find her arguments as compelling as those I have seen in favour of gender recognition and self-ID.

Whether it's the length of the posts or the shortness of my attention span that's the problem, I was indicating that I wasn't wilfully cherry picking parts of the argument or totally disregarding any of it. I just chose not to address every point, but focussed on those I found compelling. I accept that I'd have failed if this was a university essay, but luckily it's an Internet forum where none of us owe each other lengthy responses or engagement

@peanutbutter

1. Transwomen don't receive letters inviting them for a smear test. I know,this because I had a temp job than involved NHS number codes. Worst two weeks of my life.

1. There has never been a legal definition of 'trans woman', either a person had transitioned and was a woman or they hadn't and weren't. The only sort of exception to this was a letter from a gender specialist, given to someone undergoing their 'two year test', that said that person wasn't committing an act of public indecency.

1. Why do you think that you won't be able to report transphobia?

Transwomen have 'become' women for years under current legislation. Currently a GRC requires you to be over 18, have a diagnosis of GD, have lived as your preferred gender for 2 years and intend to for the rest of your life. No hormones or surgery are required.

With a GRC you can apply for a new birth certificate, passport with your preferred sex listed and your medical records are changed.

Yes, and actually a large number of women are not too fussed about accepting someone born male but with a GRC as a woman for most purposes.

But Self -id removes all the safeguards around this. And I am not ok with that. And I believe the vast majority of the country does not believe that TIMs are women.

I'm against self ID. I'm saying it's not a new thing that transwomen 'become' women as some people seem to think it is. I see lots of posts about 'accepting' previously transitioned transwomen as the assumption seems to be they've gone through surgical transition. Many haven't but are still legally recognised as women.

PeanutButterSquash You're going to have to stop!

You'll break t'interweb with all that well considered, informed, balanced posting.

As A N Other has said Your posts are too long - and long may that continue

Oh god! Another one!

Testing I am reporting you... for gross reasonableness!

Without being silly - what would they be testing for with a smear test on a Transwoman?

There ain't nothing to scrape from surely???

This leaflet

www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/623309/Transgender_cross_programme_screening_leaflet.pdf

explains how the NHS computer system invites people for screening and who should have it.

It obviously says quite clearly transwomen do not need smear tests. But if they are registered with the GP as female (because the NHS only has one field for sex/gender) they will be invited for a screen.

Obviously one would hope they wouldn't go. But as GPs are paid based on %s of people they screen, and as apparently there is no function to record such a person as not needing screening, this is a waste of resources and a bit of a mess.

And obviously just a silly is that a transman who was registered as male, but who would have a cervix, wouldn't get invited routinely.

And I am going to link again to the petition here:

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/214118

which asks for consultation on self-dentification.

How is the experience of gender identity any more meaningful way to divide people than the experiences with our bodies?

^^This. I don't understand.

May I point out, when we are talking medical care, that much research is done using (anonymised) records? The issues that arise from recording gender rather than sex is that it makes a lot of essential research and epidemiology difficult. We can't see what diseases affect who and how. Sex is very important medically and it isn't just about an individual's consultation with a doctor.

More is discovered all the time about implications of sex differences for medicine and treatment.

This from the World Economic Forum today: twitter.com/wef/status/972902503867174912

Peanut I hear you. Tru has also posted on how difficult it is being the 'wrong kind of trans person', with the wrong kind of life experience, needs etc.

The self ID movement is anything but liberal, tolerant, inclusive or even basically compassionate.

YANBU. We will be subjected to the same in Wales by Leanne Wood shortly, if it hasn’t happened already?

She is a total sheep and can’t resist following in Nicola sturgeons footsteps!

Another “Let’s support all minority groups regardless of how it will affect our country - so we are certain of gaining everyone’s votes come election time”... Twats!!

Peanut I also applaud your measured and sensitive posts. They are not too long at all.

All I'll say is I've come to my views after reading a huge amount from other women (trans and cis) and I find the arguments made by others more compelling than yours.

That might be because her posts are too long and you didn't read them

The cynic in me suspects that you did read them ;)

Please don't use the word cis when referring to women.