IANBU!!! The Scottish Government have stolen the word female. It now includes males

[AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth]

This is a National Scandal

fairplayforwomen.com/scottish_stole_woman/

The Scottish government have redefined the legal meaning of the word "woman". It has now been expanded to include:
"A person who has the protected characteristic of gender reassignment...if, and only if, the person is living as a woman, and is proposing to undergo, is undergoing, or has undergone a process, or part of a process, for the purpose of becoming female

What fucking country do I live in?

The bill doesn't allow those who just say they are women to be counted as a woman on a public board - they have to be in the process of becoming female. I don't see the problem with this personally.

You need to read the link to really understand the context and significance of this.

homeTIRF thats a Government website. How removed are you from the democratic process? Do you democracy is something thats done by other people on your behalf?

That's the problem ParisUSM - there is no such thing as a process of becoming female. It is (currently) an impossibility.

ParisUSM 'the process' means going to your GP and announcing you intend to change your gender. No other change is necessary, hence all the annoying trans threads.

It does not mean they will change sex.

Reflecting on the wording I don't even know what living as a woman would entail.

To give it legal weight seems a bit flakey.

I don't know what 'process' means.

But for those asking if the same is also said about men the answer is that this is about 'gender equity' - it is referring to committee membership where a portion of places have been reserved for women (as in natal ones who actually face the kinds of discrimination that women face) and the proposition extends this to include those born with penises (men) who are 'becoming female' - i.e. it's fucking natal women over.

The principle is fine IMO. I have no problem with people who've had counselling and surgery and treatment etc (apart from in the field of women's sports where there would still be an unfair biological advantage) as I see them neither as a threat to women nor opening the door of women's safe spaces to those who would pose a threat to women. So long as people are not telling women to pipe down about being a woman or redefining what a woman is, which the huge majority of transwomen are not, cool.

But this wording has more holes than a fishnet stocking. What does "proposes" mean? Do you actually have to prove you've been to a dr, seen a counsellor, really worked at it? Or does it mean you can say airily, "och aye, I'm proposing to do it soon" from the depths of the topshop changing room, surrounded by teenage girls?

Also agree that the final words about "becoming female" are totally wrong and unnecessary - and worse confuse the issue further.

I’m very pleased by this and proud of my government.

I’m very pleased by this and proud of my government.

Proud that people now will be unable to get the correct medical treatment as their bodies don't match their paperwork? Weird.

How will that stop people getting the correct treatment? Stop scaremongering.

Fair enough, I assumed the 'process' meant showing you were intending to have surgery but can see it it is very vague. At least they don't use the phrase self identify which is something I think.

And when it means that boards continue to be made up of almost 100% biological males, who grew up and trained with all the privilege that conveys, but businesses can use this to avoid promoting more women, will you still be proud then?

Perhaps a dinosaur would be proud of something so old fashioned as a male dominated boardroom, eh?!

If you’d ever actually done any research instead of sitting whining in your hateful TERF bubble, you’d know that there tends to be a significant impact on trans women’s careers after they transition.

@homeTIRF who'd have thought?!

OP YABU for yet another trans thread rehashing the same failed arguments. Can @MNHQ PLEASE set up a separate board for trans bashing so they're all in one easy to avoid place?

But nobody is objecting to transwomen who have actually transitioned, you illiterate puff of nonsense!

People are objecting to the change in the law allowing MEN to take advantage of it/avoid laws that were meant to protect women.

Is that really so hard to see??

I'm maybe being horrendously naive here but I don't think that we will end up with almost 100% biological males on our public boards - I don't think we will have the equivalent ofa Lily or a Paris in Scotland. I think it is more of a Labour London thing.

Does a trans person really exist if there aren’t 47 trans threads posted per hour on MN? 🤔

Sweet lord that is like one of those nested excel formulas with clauses inside clauses inside clauses.

It is so vague and atrociously written, it is utterly pointless and will cover anyone who says whatever they want, whenever they want, however they want.

"A person who has the protected characteristic of gender reassignment..."

1. if, [conditional then]
2. and only if, [conditional on the conditional]
3. the person is living as a woman, [definition of what that is please]
4. and is proposing to undergo, [how is that defined?]
5. is undergoing, [how is that defined?]
6. or has undergone a process, [how is that defined?]
7. or part of a process, [how is that defined?]
8. for the purpose of becoming female [you simply can't change sex. It's not difficult to understand that]

I'm maybe being horrendously naive here but I don't think that we will end up with almost 100% biological males on our public boards - I don't think we will have the equivalent ofa Lily or a Paris in Scotland. I think it is more of a Labour London thing

Then why bother with the change?

YetAnotherSpartacus,

Mary Fee said it was for this reason
"The vital importance of ensuring that the bill is inclusive of trans women is highlighted by the research that Stonewall published last week, which highlights that more than half of trans people have hidden their identity at work for fear of discrimination."

You live in Scotland, a country with a government which actually seems to be progressive. I'm envious.

The Scottish Government has a long history of passing progressive legislation. We are on the whole an inclusive and tolerant nation. Long may it continue!

"the person is living as a woman, and is proposing to undergo, is undergoing, or has undergone a process, or part of a process, for thepurpose of becoming female"

So realistically, anyone who has short hair, jeans, a t shirt, and calls themself Jo.

There is no process of becoming a woman. Well, apart from growing up from a girl.