To put dd's names down for Scouts - DH thinks they are a "psuedo militaristic organisation that pledges allegiance to the monarchy and reinforces class divisions."

[morningpaper]

Well I thought that the Brownies and Scouts were okay but DH has objected that I have put their names down because they are "psuedo militaristic organisations that pledges allegiance to the monarchy and reinforces class divisions."

I told him they are probably full of working class Muslim eco-warrier children but he says no.

AIBU?

Well, Greeny, it took 65 posts for someone to say "PC gone mad" so I felt it was my duty to sneak in "Orwellian" as quickly as possible

I don't think expelling atheists (which has happened) or making an effort to contact and correcy newspapers who dare to suggest that Scouting is open to atheists counts as "lip service".

lol
your dh is right!

expelling atheists?serious? excellent. do tell.

I am howling with laughter at MB's summary of the career of a small child in the scouting movement "from Beaver to woggle fondler to cannon fodder in the greater Cause of Liz the Second (gawd bless her")

Morningpaper, you have to put this thread - and your DH's worrisome concerns - into your round-up.

Your DH sounds like a card.

lemonaid - BLIMEY! Well if that's true then I see what you mean! But I've never seen any evidence of that myself - our pack was a God-free zone.

Our pack is also a God-free zone, but even if it was a front for al-Quaeda recruitment, I wouldn't care because both DS are away at scout camp next weekend and for a whole week in the summer! (That just leaves another 6 weeks of summer holidays to find childcare for...)

It was someone a contemporary of mine at the university scout and guide group (I haven't always been an atheist) had known who was expelled. But there are occasional examples in the national press, too.

I haven't read all of the posts, but I was asked politely to leave i.e. was kicked out of the Guides for refusing to go to Church Parade. I was the only Catholic in the group and my mum said I shouldn't have to go.

It was made worse by the fact she was a Snowy Owl at Brownies - she was so angry at my getting kicked out that she started her own Brownie group on a different night for Catholics, and I used to help out. We used to go to the church which was next to the C of E one and pretend sneer at the other girls.

It was ridiculous.

Have done a quick google for stuff about atheists joining in and there's nothing on the official guiding website, and only found one blog post from an american saying her brother was kicked out of scouts for being an atheist but guides didn't have such a restriction but she left anyway - so looks like scouts may be a lot stricter on this.

However after typing in 'guides atheist' I found some disturbing stuff related to muslims about what to do with atheists - feeling quite sick now. Just shows there's bigger problems in the world.

I was kicked out of Church parade in the Guides for eating Pineapple Chunks during the service ( my half-wit friend had bought them with our pooled money because the shop had run out of the more easily concealed sherbet pips we usually had - I mean how can you surrepitiously eat a big cube??)

And do you see anything on the official site about expelling pineapple chink eaters? No, you do not.

dh didn't want dd1 to start rainbows because of the loving god thing, but i put her name down anyway, she started in january, loves it and has no idea what she is talking about when she promises to love her god (or whatever it is they say)

Oh pph i a mrelly disappointed in your opinion
SERIOUSLY
so so sad ofr all the kind adults hwo help our kids have fantastic times
you cna tell your kids arent cubs //beavers or scouts

really sad imo that peopel haev tis opinion still.

Oh FGS!!!

Yes, I'm sure it wqasn't one of those urban myths. I'm not completely stupid -- I know that there isn't a thought police that makes sure every leader has a faith and that if an atheist is prepared to take the promise and keep his or her head down then no one is going to care. But being "openly" atheist (as opposed to just not going to church or not openly following any particular faith) is grounds for being kicked out in a leader.

I just have visions of a check list

Do they support the Military Industrial complex......Check
Do they support a patriachal system by inforcing sexist role models.......check
Do they have any investments in unethical areas..........Check
Do they have unrealistic expectations about religious affiliation........Check
Do they impose a quasi millitaristic system and repress individuality.......check
Do they have a positive attitue to enthniciy.......check
Do them re-inforce class boundaries and thius subjugate the proteriat?......check
Do they serve anthing containing suger, sweetners or suauages in any of their gatherings......check
Are their grapes always halved.......check

Sigh, all looking good, and ethically responsible children's organisation

THis is looking good darling I think we have found you the right place to go

Oh sorry , damn and blast, their carbon footprint isn't right, I'm afraid you'll just have to run wild in the streets

Hey Blu - I also got thrown out of Brownies - for being a disruptive influence. Brown Owl left us unattended and I got everyone to climb into a huge cupboard with me so when she came back in to the room seconds later, it was empty. Poor woman burst into tears

My kids are enrolled in the sea scouts (scooooooooooot marine here in France). Very jolly hockey sticks and they learn to sail and rig a boat.

ggglimpopo....hahahahaha thats brilliant ....i really like the sound of you...what a laugh...

only brown owls daughter got to do anything at our 'pack' ...it was so favourity sooky shit and when they found it was me singing off key i was sort of shamed into leaving ...
...
and they were shit anyway ...the only time they took us camping was on pissing wet schottish summer day and the put the tent on an ant hill!! we all came home about 2 hours into the whole thing ....crawling ...

the ymca were brill for camping and

....girls brigade let me put the wreath at rememberence day service in glasgow on memorial, my uniform was the best

eachpeach-my dd2 actually said love my dog when she said her promise

Whoever said about church parade it used to be moreorless 'compulsory' attend X amount of services or be kicked out but now it isn't.

My ds now goes to Beavers, despite the republican, atheist inclincations of his parents. The point was, he wanted to go as his friends go - and we weren't going to stop him becasue of our principles

He gets more "religious" indoctirniation at school, where his (non-denominational) school covers all the religions. I have more difficulty counering his questions about Jeus and God which arise as a result of school discussions than enaything that has ever come up at Beavers. Until we go through with proper disestablishmentarianism - removing all religion from schooling, then that will continue to be the caee. As far as ds is concerened, Beavers are a chance to run around, play games and have fun - not about the Queen or God.

In terms of helpers, both helpers for the Beavers are women. The Scout leader is a an old guy - who is greatly respected. My dh helps out occasionally - as do the parents of the other kids (mums and dads).

My SIL is also a leader at a different pack. She is now engaged to her ds' Scout Leader - cos he is such a nice guy!

There may be the odd pervert involved in the Scout Movement - as there potentially in any hobby. I can't comment, as I have never come acorss any - not am I aware of anyone else who has. But I am not going to stop ds from doing things that he enjoys just 'cos of that miniscule risk. (As MrMariella points out - the odds of abuse are higher in the home). The repsonsbiity is on us as the adults to be alert to anything that our instincts say is wrong - and also to ensure that our children are confdent enought to rasie any concerens that they may have.

CRB checking is only as good as the moment it is applied for. It is no substitute for sensible vigilence. BTW - it is not an offence to make use of people who have not been CRB checked - only to have taken on people who are on the Sex Offender's Register - subtle difference.

LOL ggg - yes, I can imagine you doing that! I was also in trouble at brownies - climbing out of the men's toilet window from the church hall into the vicar's garden to scrump apples and strawberries.

We had Sea scouts - on the river Trent. I was SO of them - I would much rather have been a sea scout.

Sorry - gratuitous bumping of this thread

But lemonaid - its very hard to be noticed for something you don't do - ie, don't believe in God. Unless you go up to everyone and shout 'I don't believe what you believe and your God is stupid' then you'll pretty much go unnoticed anyway. I'm very openly agnostic - ie if anyone asks me or discusses religion with me I'll tell them straight but, as with many other things, I don't try and get it into as many conversations as possible, there's no reason to.

You don't have to 'keep your head down' - obv if you were going round telling all the kids with a faith that they were wrong and/or stupid THAT would be grounds for being kicked out but the same would apply to most subjects, eg telling them Father Christmas doesn't exist when they fervently believe in him would be insensitive and show you as a bad leader.

Bearing in mind this perhaps the question is irrelevant? If your DH doesn't want your DC to go to scouts, at least some other kid may get the chance.

Sorry, I don't mean to be chippy but surely your husband's biased views are as bad as the perceived brainwashing by the scout movement. FWIW, I was never allowed to go to Brownies as a child because my parents were suspicious of any organised clubs (goodness knows why) and I really envied my friends because it sounded great fun. If my child wants to go to Brownies when she's older all well and good, if she doesn't, fine, but I'm not letting either my or my DH's views influence her. (Although God help her if she shows interest in the Woodcraft Folk )