To put dd's names down for Scouts - DH thinks they are a "psuedo militaristic organisation that pledges allegiance to the monarchy and reinforces class divisions."

[morningpaper]

Well I thought that the Brownies and Scouts were okay but DH has objected that I have put their names down because they are "psuedo militaristic organisations that pledges allegiance to the monarchy and reinforces class divisions."

I told him they are probably full of working class Muslim eco-warrier children but he says no.

AIBU?

Riven - what size/colour t-shirt are you after?

'It's so sad that children are being denied so much because their parents are paranoid loons. '

I couldn't have put it better myself!
Also when did people stop trusting their DCs to make their own judgements? There is a terrific fear that anyone talking to a DC, that is in anyway different to the parent, is 'indoctrinating'. The real danger, to my mind, is that the parent tells the DC what to believe, so that they can't think for themselves and then they are open to someone who comes along and is more charismatic than the parent because they have never been allowed to even suggest that they think differently from the parent.
When I was a DC, especially a teenager, I had long debates with my parents over meal times. Looking back some of my beliefs make me cringe now-but they listened and didn't belittle them. You now get threads where the parent is upset if a vicar talks in a school assembly-as if one word from the vicar and the DC will be 'born again' and in church every week!!!

I suspect that many a parent with strong views is reacting against their own parents and not seeing that they are just as bad the other way!

Up until about 5 yrs,or possibly 8 yrs, you expect the DC to say 'my mummy thinks or my daddy thinks' the assumption being that they think the same. If a DC of Scout age told me 'I don't belong because Dad says
they are a "psuedo militaristic organisation that pledges allegiance to the monarchy and reinforces class divisions." I would say 'What do you think?'
I just fail completely to see why dad's view is any way relevant.

Although I think it is wonderful and DS1 got a great deal from it (it was a godsend as when he was 10 yrs he had toddler and baby brothers, so he could go off to the Lake District etc under canvas for 10 days) DS2 went to Beavers and Cubs and left and it wasn't DS3's thing at all, he went to Beavers but only went to a couple of Cub meetings. I respected that-they are all different.

DS2 toyed with the idea of Air Cadets and went to a couple of meetings, but decided against it. It was up to him-he would be really surprised-and tell me what he thought-if I expected him to join or not join according to my views.

My DSs are quick to tell me 'it is my life' and they are completely right! I think that there would be strong rebellion if I told them that they had to see the world 'as Pisces sees it'! I am very proud of the fact that they make up their own minds and I haven't the least worry about them being indoctrinated by anyone else.

In the case of OP I would stick to your own ideas. Just tell him that you think that they are OK and the names are going on the list until such time as they can make up their own mind. Or are wives supposed to bow to 'superior wisdom'?! I am pro the monarchy and my DH is very anti-we live together perfectly amicably. I have no idea what the DSs think-they have never said-I expect they couldn't care either way.

Did any of us actually last the distance in the guides?

I didn't get as far as getting the uniform-I think that I tried about 3 meetings-but that was because I decided that it wasn't for me. It had absolutely nothing to do with my father's view of the Guide movement.I didn't know what he thought about it.He never said -since he had never been a Guide and was never going to be a Guide I don't think that his view would have been in the least helpful!

It also depends what your local one is like-they vary enormously. They can be very boring and do nothing much. Another reason not to blanket it all together without looking into it locally first. They all allow for visits before being invested, so that the DC can make up their mind first. (they do not expect the parent to stay)

You have to believe in a god/gods to join which means they're in my personal axis of evil list.

my dc go to other places to have fun, without god/uniform/queen stuff, but the excuse I give dc is that on that particualr eveing I'm at work so sorry they really can't go .
btw sister+family/my dad are great fans of scouting so not sure what paretns have to do wit it...

Just checked and you do have to swear an oath to god/Allah/deity of choice.

You are not allowed to be a scout and an atheist. (unless you lie of course)

'they're in my personal axis of evil list'

Once again you are not the one joining! Is it on your DC's evil list? They are the one to decide whether to join or not. It is all quite plain, they don't hide it,-take it or leave it but don't try to change it to suit you. Start your own group-hire a hall.Don't knock those who are providing something that is very popular.

My DCs have made up their own mind on whether there is a God or not-it isn't 'Mummy has told me there is a God-mummy must be right'!!! The Scout one is happy with the 'tradition' of it. DS2 has it on his evil list and DS3 hasn't said-but he won't go to church. I believe in God-why on earth do they have to follow me?!

Giving birth doesn't give you the right to tell your DC what to believe. You are privileged to have them for a very short time-they are not a possession.

It may be on your 'evil' list but that should have nothing to do with whether they join-unless they have decided it is on their 'evil list'-hopefully for a better reason than 'my mummy says so'!

I agree with theo OP, BUT my children have to most wonderful time at Cubs and Sea Scouts. thye spend very little time in recreating Hitler Youth rallies, and huge amounts of time sailing boats, baking apple pies in oil drums, playing murder in the dark in the woods, toasting marshmallows, making bivouacs and sleeping in them, giggling, learning stuff, forgetting to worry about hair straighness, and just generally having a seriously fantastic time. And all for 2 quid.

But check what the troop you're thinking about does - the range of activities depends a lot on the location and the leader.

I would challenge you to find any organisation that will take your DC away for 10 days and give them an amazing range of activities, and give them a seriously good time, for such a cheap price!

I can tell you, as in interviewer of scout leaders-reading between the lines,that many of the leaders feel the same as OP. The movement has a history, it would be a shame to deny that just because it doesn't match up with many beliefs of many today. The Scout movement has moved on! I doubt whether a Scout from 1934 would recognise much today.

I was a Brownie and a Guide, and I consider myself to be an atheist and a republican (like my parents).

DD goes to Beavers, absolutely loves it (and she's a shy child who doesn't take easily to new activities). She's there right now on a fun day, five hours, two quid, food included. Fantastic.

And around here, it's by far one of the less class-ridden activities available, if only because it's by far one of the cheapest. And it's so laid-back compared with the likes of ballet, tennis/swimming lessons etc.

I think the volunteers who give up their time to run it deserve a medal (and not just a badge).

"
Also Scouts do Attract Strange Men As Leaders

I know you will all howl me down and say that your scout leader is a marvellous gentle chap and your brother is a scout leader and wouldn't hurt a fly.... but it won't change the bare cold fact that Scouts do attract dodgy men much like boys boarding prep schools do."

Oh ffs!!! PROVE IT! Oh, and by proof, I mean actual proof, not tittle tattle or vicious gossip.

There was some moron on here a while ago who wouldn't let her son join the Scouts because all the leaders were perverts. One of the most stupid posts I have ever read, and by God, I've read some stupid ones.

Not only is it stupid it is damaging. It stops potential leaders coming forward. The attitude also stops primary schools getting male teachers-especially in the early years-where there is a crying need. Anyone who comes up with it-even as a joke should be forced to do community service!! It is always made by the sort of person who never volunteers and so can't see why a lot of people want to 'put things back'.

Most of the leaders tend to come through as fathers of DCs who want to join. As someone said earlier, as a 36 week pregnant Cub leader-they are a very starange man!!!

'strange man' even!

As I said earlier in the thread - I am the atheist - I am leaving my DSs to make up their own minds. In any case, the oath-swearing is a very small part of something which has been great for my sons

Rockbird summed up the entire thread, earlier, in one sentence:

'It's so sad that children are being denied so much because their parents are paranoid loons'

I think that I will give up posting-there is nothing more to add to that sentence. Sadly the DCs are the losers.

(I am never sure why people think that leftish views are thought liberal when anyone who lets strong personal views limit someone else's life experiences is narrow minded IMO-whatever the views). The truly liberal allow their DCs to come to their own conclusions.They also trust their DCs and put up with the fact that they may not think the same.

DS is in Beavers and there's a reference to God in what they say, but no mention of the Queen. God reference is fine (he goes to Catholic school) and even the Queen bit wouldn't worry me too much. There's folks out there pledging their loyalty to Bin Laden on a daily basis, so I think the Queen's pretty tame, in comparison.

Bloke at work's wife is a Guide leader and went on camp with the girls. I asked him what they did and apparently they stayed up late and all giggled about boys. Clubs like these are good ways of introducing kids to mentors, particularly teens, when they stop listening to their own parents. I'd be pretty happy that my teen girl has a Guide leader a bit older, but not old as such, and sensible, to help guide (excuse the pun) them along in life.

I loved Brownies, Guides and Rangers. Most of my memories revolve around camping and having a lot of fun with my friends.I have very vague memories of going to church parade and singing the national anthem, but that was just stuff we did and put up with... the camping was the stuff we wanted to do

can't read whole of thread- am [huff] about Woodies getting a kicking!

My kids love Woodcraft. They're really diverse/inclusive- they spend a lot of time doing outreach work ie going out to parks and estates and other places where kids hang out in the holidays and getting them to come and play "cooperative games"

I really really love Woodcraft. I'm a lefty. I fully accept that in time my kids may not be lefties- that's up to them. But in the meantime they're not being brainwashed- just playing lots of rough lairy fun games in a draughty shed. And the kids are sooooo nice to each other it's unbelieveable- or at least it would be for me if I hadn't seen it meself...