To put dd's names down for Scouts - DH thinks they are a "psuedo militaristic organisation that pledges allegiance to the monarchy and reinforces class divisions."

[morningpaper]

Well I thought that the Brownies and Scouts were okay but DH has objected that I have put their names down because they are "psuedo militaristic organisations that pledges allegiance to the monarchy and reinforces class divisions."

I told him they are probably full of working class Muslim eco-warrier children but he says no.

AIBU?

[suzycreamcheese]

mrmariella..it is a book...site...way of life...

[puddle]

No leaders in woodcraft blu. Perish the thought .

[fortyplus]

FrannyandZooey - that must depend on the Group, too. Ours used to be invited to a few services at the local church, but it was up to each family whether or not to attend. Religion played no part in the weekly meetings, though the Scout promise still refers to loving 'my God'.

I'm an atheist, but I didn't have any more of a problem with that than I did about telling my kids that an old geezer in a red suit comes down the chimney and leaves them presents!

[WK007]

F&Z - I think the faith thing is really important , especially now when religion is everywhere and its confusing for adults, let alone kids. But have to say at whoever asked you which church you go to, I've never known that be an issue, or even a question in the places I've been involved in, no-one bothers, even the main leader who's a pastor's wife. Its all left as 'your own choice'.

[PrincessPeaHead]

Oh is it the Centenary Year? I take it ALL back. All Scout Leaders Are Lovely And None Have Any Inappropriate Interest In Boys At All.

Here's to another 100 glorious years!

[fennel]

Blu - Woodcraft is terribly consensual and non-authoritarian, so much so that they need about 10 adult leaders and helpers wiffling around to keep 15 or so children vaguely under control. Hence their need for parents to stay and help despite the many leaders and teenage trainee leaders.

Which all lessens the possibility of abuse, as there are just so many adults around.

[FrannyandZooey]

Well it had to be filled out on the form, you see, when you joined

"What religion are you?"

I had no idea.

"Well where do you go to church?"

Erm, I don't.

[morningpaper]

hmm so they have sort of Strict Woodcraft folk?

I mean there isn't going to be a Revolution if there are just lots of people wiffling around semi-naked and growing their hair, is there?

[fortyplus]

cat64 - my 2 went through Beavers/Cubs and did about a year each in Scouts before deciding that there were 'too many prats' and the leaders did nothing to stop them misbehaving. I thought that was a shame.

[morningpaper]

(so=do)

Maybe Badgers is The Thing

[fortyplus]

FrannyandZooey - I think that's just in case they need the last rites

They ask you that when you go to hospital don't they?

[MrMariella]

Of course, Greeny. My 'admiration' for La Frostrup was well-known..been away for a bit, but did wish advice about dd's SATS that has upset her this weekend.

[fennel]

haven't seen any nudity (yet). apart from Very Proactive Toddler Breastfeeding at Circle Time (which of course is highly mumsnet-approved).

Circle time is, naturally, where we all consult and discuss and share and so on.

[fortyplus]

I found it a bit disconcerting that when I helped with the Beaver colony I was known as 'Black Beaver'

[ChocolateFace]

Can someone please point out exactly how I find a local Woodcrft group!

[lemonaid]

WK007 -- The Scout Association say

Scout Association factsheet "Fundamentals of Scouting" (here )

"it is not possible for an atheist to hold a Warrant as a Leader"

Scout Association Equal Opportunities [sic] Policy (here )

"The Scout Movement is not a religious organisation, but does expect its Members to follow a religious faith and conform to its practices. A belief in the spiritual aspect of human beings and a belief in a spiritual power greater than ourselves is fundamental to Membership of the Scout Movement [...] While it is not acceptable to deny a volunteer entry to the Movement because of their membership of a faith community, a person would not be suitable as a Leader if he or she were an atheist"

Scout Association Noticeboard article "Promoting Multi-Faith Scouting" (here )

"We are aware that in some newspapers an incorrect statement is made that Scouting is open to atheists. This of course is not true and we have gone back to those newspapers to clarify this point."

none of which suggests to me that if you have no God at all it's up to you. It suggests to me, fairly clearly, that Scouting isn't open to atheists. Except, if you are splitting hairs, to atheists who pretend not to be atheists. There have been genuine cases of leaders being busted out of the movement for being atheists.

The Guides don't have the equivalent documents accessible on their website, but I am tolerably certain that their policy is the same (because every time a journalist asks, they say it is). By all means ask your district staff what the position would be regarding a leader who openly admits to being an atheist -- I will be pleasantly surprised if it wouldn't be a problem.

[WK007]

F&Z - can't remember if it said that on my form but if it did I would have put none and nothing was made of it.

[Blandmum]

what is wiffling and how does it lead to Revolution?

But will your dh not see Beavers as being the first step in the inexorable progress of your ds from Beaver to woggle fondler to cannon fodder in the greater Cause of Liz the Second (gawd bless her and those of that ilk..... )

[Greensleeves]

Plus woodcraft is a family oriented, non-gender-specific and generally informal fun-based scenario, rather than a highly ritualised and bizarre set-up involving lots of little boys in paramilitary uniforms saluting all over the place.

[gscrym]

DH used to be a scout leader and I have a lot of friends who are scout leaders. I know the troup DH ran had kids from a huge range of ethnic and wealth backgrounds. He also had disabled kids. They all got on well, fought the same amount as kids would. They all went to the same school (almost) and if one was getting picked on, the others backed them up. He also had girls in his troup. He left when DS came along because he couldn't give the same level of commitment.

They still say the promise to the queen but I'm not sure about the God part as there are many different religious backgrounds.

[lemonaid]

ChocolateFace -- I did in my post of 20:04:19

[Blandmum]

And OY!

While I have your attention MP.

Wise old bird?????????? Hurumph!

[WK007]

fair enough lemonaid - as I said I have nothing to do with Scouts but I will dig out the Guiding paperwork. Maybe its just that Cornwall is so far out in the sticks we've lost touch but no-one in our group, apart from the main leader, has a faith and nothing is made of it.