To put dd's names down for Scouts - DH thinks they are a "psuedo militaristic organisation that pledges allegiance to the monarchy and reinforces class divisions."

[morningpaper]

Well I thought that the Brownies and Scouts were okay but DH has objected that I have put their names down because they are "psuedo militaristic organisations that pledges allegiance to the monarchy and reinforces class divisions."

I told him they are probably full of working class Muslim eco-warrier children but he says no.

AIBU?

[FrannyandZooey]

Suzy

some kind of computer thing where you have to rub the screen

either that or living with me has finally pushed dp to the brink

[Blandmum]

Funnily enough Mrs V's dh was a butcher, and there was always a pig's head in the window, that was never sold. Was that where she hid her radio, do you think???

The plot thickens.

You should walk him the 20 miles. Character building. Oh hell, but then he will need shoes earlier, and that adds to the cult of global capitalism

[Cammelia]

Did your house cost more to be in the catchment area of SMH mp

[WK007]

I promised to serve 'my god' - if I don't have one at the current moment then there's not a lot of serving to do, the minute I get one I will do what is needed.

[FrannyandZooey]

And why exactly do we have to call what we believe in "a God"?

I believe in lots of things but none of them are Gods. Getting children to promise to love their God implies (well, states, really) that they should have a God.

[DrDaddy]

I loved Scouts; it was fantastic. Not sure what it's like these days though. In our current culture, you probably aren't even allowed to wear woggles in case you accidentally, brutally hanged yourself at a scout meeting....

My parents wouldn't let me join the Woodcraft Folk who emerged briefly near us in the 70s as apparently they wanted to indoctrinate children in communism (according to my father).

[fennel]

We are thoroughly enjoying Woodcraft folk here. dd1 joined a year ago and we've all been sucked in - camping trips, parties, running evenings. They do indeed attract strange men, also strange women and children, but that's part of their pacifist hippie charm.

I was a keen brownie, guide, ranger, venture scout and guide young leader in my rather too wholesome youth, and would have sent the dds if there were no local woodcraft option, but it is very nice not to have the monarchist militarist theist agenda. Given that we're not very into any of those things.

[PrincessPeaHead]

I'm not worked up in the slightest, if you hang around for a bit you'll learn that I don't give a rats arse about what practically anyone says to me. If you want to think that I'm a pointless boggler you go right ahead my boy. In fact I've also been called a jumped up office girl in my time, you can use that too if you like (although the original poster has, sadly, met a sticky end).
I shall continue to think that Scout Leaders are Proportionately Dodgier than Your Average Bloke and wonder what alternative universe your excellent and convenient sounding career has taken you to where you think the opposite. But rest assured I don't really CARE.

[fortyplus]

I helped at our local group when my boys went. They enjoyed it up to a point. It's interesting to observe the leaders at District events...

Some are highly motivated and have been brought up in Scouting themselves and genuinely wish to pass the joy on to another generation.

Some are parents who have been roped in because no one else would do it.

Unfortunately, many are people who obviously crave respect and authority and just can't find it any other way than by bossing little boys around. Of these, a fair proportion are not terribly bright and/or social misfits.

You need to be very careful to find a pack run by leaders who fall into the first two categories, not the third. Having been involved in Scouting myself, I can only say that each group very much takes on the personality of its leaders - some of whom I wouldn't leave in charge of a dog.

[WK007]

F&Z - thats why that shouldn't be taken in isolation - they don't say their promise then go home forever more. We actually talk about different faiths and what they mean for different people, including the fact that some people choose not to have a faith or haven't made up their mind yet.

[Blu]

Our school caretaker - or premises manager as he is now called - is a Woodcraft Folk leader (do they have 'leaders', or is it all consensual non-hierarchical decision making? Anyway, I'm probably going to sign DS up for it).

I'm amazed that Ian Hislop does not mention that the first version of B-P's Scouting for Boys has many references to the problem of 'beastliness' and the certainty that 'beastliness' will undermine the scouts ability to dib, dob and woggle.

And, given the apparant identifucation of B-P as a repressed homosexual, you could wonder what he menat by urging his troops to erve the Queen...

[PrincessPeaHead]

I thank you forty plus

Social misfits bossing little boys around for kicks would fall into my very scientific category of Dodgy. Anyone else?

[Greensleeves]

[MrMariella]

PPH. Steady!!

My career is excellent, but not always convenient.

I am unsure what it is that has led you to draw such unsubstantiated statements about me personally. But I am letting it go, and shall not respond to you further.

[Greensleeves]

MrMariella, are you Pann?

[FiveFingeredFiend]

I must say ifi was going to be anally retentive about anything it would be the god thing. the Netherlands have an alternate version but the scout movement said "no -one else in the 30's i think. So it can't be changed.

if i truly believed there wasn't a god. I think the God thing could be confusing - i do believe in God so therefore was never an issue for me. However I can see how this part of the promise would be rather than the monarchy and elitism, and psuedo gimpism etc.

[KathyMCMLXXII]

(Isn't there also a bit explaining how you will know what 'beastliness' is - it's something you would be ashamed to do in front of your mother or sisters?)

[FrannyandZooey]

I think the whole idea of involving faith as a necessary part (even a necessary part that you can "choose" not to have) of a children's social group is odd in this day and age.

I must admit I am biased on this. When I joined I was asked which church I went to and I found it very embarrassing. I was really at a loss to know how to answer. I stammered something about not going to church (it was so clearly expected that you DID) and the Brownie Leader said "oh well we'll just put C of E then shall we?" !!!

[fortyplus]

PrincessPeaHead 'Scout Leaders are Proportionately Dodgier than Your Average Bloke'... many of them are women.

Many are students working towards DofE awards.

Many are parents of children within the group.

Scout Leaders are no weirder than train spotters - they are often little boys who have never grown up.

The Scout Association apparently had a register of people who took an unhealthy interest in children long before the Police did.

Funnily enough, despite the fact that I've seen some very peculiar people in Scouting, there was only one person who gave me the slightest concern re: his motives.

[suzycreamcheese]

f&z...ahhhhh.....a ninetendo..dh had to explain i thought you had interactive sensitve monitor .....or something..

is there a health thread around?? atm?

[FiveFingeredFiend]

and the last line in the promise about never fiddling with a rabbits gonads?

[morningpaper]

Is beastliness being a republican?

[FrannyandZooey]

Oh well spotted Greeny.

[FrannyandZooey]