To Stop Dieting?

[MessyMcDoogle]

I'm 17st 7lbs at 5ft 5 and I've been obese since I was 7 years old.

I've also 'been on a diet' since I was 7 with varying degrees of success, but my lowest ever adult weight is 14st so I've never been a healthy weight.

I've been doing some reading (books, not online blogs etc) and there's a school of thought that dieting actually causes obesity by buggering up your relationship with food. I feel this. I loathe myself whenever I eat and often wake up in the morning feeling guilty about what I ate the day before, then realise I had a good day and didnt binge so I dont have anything to feel guilty about

I binge eat in the evenings fairly regularly because once I'm "off track" on whatever diet I"m doing, I just think 'fuck it' and eat what I want, all the time feeling guilty for what I'm eating and therefore making the desire to binge even stronger. It's maddening.

I want to just stop. I don't want to track anything, I don't want to parse blame for my weight onto whether a particular diet 'works' or not etc etc. I just want to eat like a normal fucking human being and not feel bad about it and keep the accountability on me, not on a 'plan'.

My fear is though that I"m going to get even bigger. I really can't afford to do that, I'm massive as it is. I feel like by removing the restrictions on myself I'm just going to go crazy and have no structure to pull my eating back under control.

Is this a really bad idea?

Why not try what you're suggesting OP? Sounds as if you need to give yourself a break from the feelings surrounding food. It's fine to say that following eating plans don't work for you.
Low carb did work for you, but presumably you stopped it. That's your choice, to stop doing what is losing you weight and go back to higher carbs that increased your weight. But don't underestimate the body's physical ADDICTIVE reaction to sugar/high GI carbs. That's real and it has nothing to do with your willpower, or your worth as a person. See those foods as they really are - addictive - not your friend. They don't even count as a food source if you think about what's in them or what they provide in nutrition.

Nah, not engaging. Not tracking, not excersising more and not weighing myself. Nope nope nope nope nope.

I’ll be self referring to the local mental
Health team today for assessment, there’s something very wrong with how I think about food, that much is fairly self evident I think.

Definitely concentrating on dealing with the bingeing is key I think, and will be hugely wrapped up in your childhood and your mum putting you on a meal replacement diet at such a young age. And also what led to that. You were 7. Were you overweight then? Was it ‘puppy fat’? Was it just her perception? If you were actually overweight at age 7 what led to that?

I also think you need to be kind to your self. And be kind to your body. No more punishment. Mind set is such a powerful thing. I know when I’m not eating right I hate myself and I eat more crap. Punishment although it feels like comfort at the time. It’s not really.

Good luck with it all. It may all feel worse before it gets better. You might gain. But in the long term you will hopefully have a more healthy relationship with food. And with yourself.

This thread has really made me think too. I am going to check out the website about what real people eat and actually read the books I have on the subject. And I need to stop saying I’m being good or I’m not being good. That leads to such a feeling of failure. And self hatred. And so on and so on.

I’m going to concentrate on eating healthy unprocessed food. A good multivitamin. Lots of water. And walking. I actually like walking and always feel better for it. Am going walking with a friend tomorrow who is a life coach/mindfulness coach/Nordic walking coach etc etc. She is incredibly positive and focussed and vibrant.

Bingeing is caused by dieting.

Personally I'd argue that in most cases it isn't even a disorder - it's a natural physiological response to food deprivation.

Getting my head round this was key. I didn't need therapy. I needed to stop denying my body food and nutrients.

The brain over binge book has really intelligent things to say about this.

I was thinking about this thread last night OP and how so many of us have reached the point where we know that dieting is futile for us and psychologically damaging and have either stopped or want to stop, and I was thinking of setting up a dedicated support thread. I know I could do with the support of others as I struggle with learning how to eat normally again. What it wouldn't be, however, is a place for people to recommend diets - however kind people's intentions are, it's not helpful to us. What do people think?

Continued listening to brain over binge this morning on the train, it’s really uncomfortable listening for me to be honest. A lot of her behaviours and thoughts are exactly like mine and I’ve welled up and cried a couple of times this morning and last night.

I actually think this is a bit of a turning point for me, kind of a lightbulb moment that I’m fairly unwell. I have a diagnosis for anxiety disorder as it is (although I was prescribed fluoxetine it never solved it) and I suspected for a while that was a diagnosis of a symptom rather than a cause in my case.

In brain over binge she uses the term ‘bulimic, none purging type’ which is the old diagnostic term for BED apparently and it makes so much sense. This is essentially bulimia, just without the purge hence the uncontrolled and rapid weight gain.

To give you some perspective, my standard binge is:

10 inch chicken bbq pizza
Large portion of chips + small potion of chips and cheese
10 chicken nuggets
Pot of garlic mayo
2 portions of chocolate fudge cake

When I was on a low carb diet I could convince myself I was still ‘on plan’ if I ate:

20 chicken nuggets
5 mozzarella sticks
5 chicken strips
1 portion of breaded mushrooms
Pot of garlic mayo

I’ll binge on this or slight variations of this between 1 and 4 times a week. They work out at approx 7000 and 4500 cals respectively.

While on low carb, I’d make myself sick if i ate anything sweet or sugary. At Easter last year I at 30g milk chocolate and spent half an hour making self sick. I’ve only ever don’t that on low carb.

I feel hungover in the morning after a binge and have occasionally missed work due to it.

Apparently need my NHS number to self refer so I’ll rig my GP’s to get this at lunch time.

I think these days it is very hard to be healthy. I think it’s unlearning all the false info from years ago.
I thpugh bread was
Healthy.
Now I’m looking at the old days before Processed food.
Cooking things from scratch takes time so I’m changing slowly my routines.
I’m slowly moving away from processed food. I believe in small permanent changes that fit my own routine.

OP, I think seeking medical support here is the best way forward as you are sensibly looking into. It's a really positive step that you've identified your need for help and are not shying away from the facts, you're confronting your binge tendencies and eating disorder head on. A lot of people struggle with the reality of their condition and bury their head in the sand, so well done.

I wish you all the luck in your quest, please keep us updated on how you get on x

When I try to diet I nd up eating more ... because I’m not filling up so I’m eating bits here and there and I’m permanently focused on food.

Try it, it could work.

So sorry you're going through this OP. I think you're right in pushing for the mental health help as it does seem like you'd benefit from it.
With regards to the normal eating side of things, well it's great you're letting go of all the dieting rules and regs have you thought about re focusing your energy. A positive approach could be to focus on eating to nourish yourself and provide your body with what it needs. So instead of punishing yourself you can reward and congratulate yourself. Food for me comes down to simple facts, my body needs so much carbs, protein, veg etc each day to work at it best and look it's best so that's what I eat. I will literally eat an avocado thinking 'this will make my hair shine and my skin plump, aren't I clever for choosing to eat it!' It's pathetic to say out loud but I really does work and it really helps.
You said you're keen on data and facts and I think you could get real enjoyment out of doing this too. Try it, eat some seeds, green veg and a piece of salmon and be smug!! Visualise the all the vitamins and protein strengthening your body, boosting your immune system and making your skin glow!
...ok now I've written this down I think I might be a bit mad!

Billy dessert - it sounds like a great approach. And whatever works!

I had avocado on soya and linseed toast this morning for breakfast followed by a satsuma. All healthy and good for me. And I have been thinking similar thoughts to you! About to have a glass of water to clear my skin! 😂

If you want to know anything about nutrition, ask a morbidly obese person. We know it all. Genuinely, there's nothing I can't tell you about nutrition, what percentage of your diet should be x y and z, having that knowledge doesn't help me at all, in fact it makes things worse because again, it gives me a reason to hate myself for 'not sticking to it'.

I almost want to remove all decision making from food. I was in Sainsbury's earlier picking up my lunch and completely freaked out. I'd usually find it easy to choose something for lunch in line with whatever diet I'm following because it limits my choices, but today I genuinely couldnt figure out what I actually like to eat. Complete madness. I settled on a tuna sandwich (the 'healthy' one as it happens, the other was swimming with mayo and didn't look as nice), a packet of baked crisps and a pip & nut portion of peanut butter for the train home later. I had a coffee with cream for breakfast as normal and I have a portion of nuts in my desk drawer if i get hungry later. There's also fruit available at work all the time so if i want some I'll have some. I can tell you the calories in all of those things but im making a conscious effort not to add it up. It's bloody hard.

No idea what's for dinner tonight, I'd normally quiz DH (he's cooking as it's his day off) and instruct him exactly what to cook, what to put in it, how much oil to use, what time to have it ready etc etc but before I left this morning I asked him to have something ready for when I get in and to just not tell me what's in it. It's food, that's enough. There's always a lot of veggies in our evening meals (at least 3 types not including potato etc) so that will be fine.

There are times when DH will cook a meal and I'll say I'm not hungry until he goes out to work, then I'll binge instead of eating the food he cooked. This makes him very upset although he hides it, so I hide takeaway cartons in the bin outside instead of throwing them in the kitchen bin and throw a portion of the food he cooked away with it so it looks like I ate what he cooked and didn't binge.

I feel a bit 'in the wind' if that makes sense, like I've got no anchor and I'm just sort of cast adrift. Hard to explain really, I'm a bit all over the place today. I keep welling up for no apparent reason and I'm at work so I'm praying no one talks to me about anything important. I'll be fine, I just need to put a lid on it until tonight when I can sit down with DH and have a proper chat.

Did not think my rant about feeling fed up would open a can of worms but it appears that's the case. Mumsnet is an amazing thing sometimes.

Completely get what you mean about knowing all there is to know about nutrition etc. It would be so bloody easy if knowing it was all it took!

I think you are bound to feel wobbly and emotional and just plain fragile. You are essentially peeling away layers of emotions and feelings that you have been hiding from. And it’s not your fault! We are bloody bombarded with food and diet and weight loss advice at every corner. And we see everyone else being able to stick to it. So why can’t we?

The diet and weight loss industry is huge. It’s worth a fortune. And we feel like failures because we can’t do what everyone else seems to be able to. So what is wrong with us? Nothing as it happens!

One approach does not work for everyone. For some it can be as simple as finding thT low carb works well for them. Or someone else likes the ease of SW. Or the points system with WW. Or whatever.

It when your issues are emotionally rooted and go back a long way it’s just not that bloody simple!

Messy I'm not surprised you're having a wobble and are feeling emotional - this is decades of disordered eating you're trying to come to terms with. Be kind to yourself and keep reminding yourself that you've made the best possible decision for your mental health by giving up dieting. Once you've dealt with mind side of things, your body should find its own natural rhythm.

I've skipped through the bottom half of the thread, so sorry if I'm repeating other posters. In our area, you can self-refer to IAPT, which is the NHS talking therapies service. You mentioned above doing online CBT, and I know that's something you can access through this (where I live, anyway). So you can do this without getting the GP involved. It's not specific to eating disorders, but I may be able to help you start to address the underlying causes of your issues with food, and give to access to useful self-help resources.

I can empathise with you so much, OP.

One of the things that’s been really important for me is understanding and accepting the difference between overeating and bingeing. For example, I took my mum out on Mother’s Day and we overate massively but I felt no guilt about that because we were having fun and it felt normal within the context of the occasion.

My binge choice, on the other hand, is similar to yours. It’s always a particular pizza chain, not because it’s my favourite necessarily, but because it’s reliable and I’d find it very humiliating to have to chase something if it was late. Also, if I can order online, it keeps human contact and consequently, judgement to a minimum. I always order exactly the same thing (enough for a family of four) and always eat it in exactly the same order and in exactly the same manner, as though deviating from that will lessen the experience somehow. I can’t describe it, but I know it’s fucked. I always know exactly how I’ll feel during and after and that forethought makes absolutely no difference whatsoever. If I know I have an opportunity for a binge (not as often since dh stopped working shifts), it’s my focus all day and I won’t eat in order that I can maximise the pleasure of the anticipation.

I don’t care if I overeat. Like you, I just can’t continue in the binge/guilt/binge cycle because it’s killing me.

I'm still feeling really positive after reading that 'eat like a normal person ' site. I've just stopped en route to pick up some lunch too, OP (I normally eat at home but haven't got time between jobs today).

Instead of trying to limit myself (and inevitably then feel hungry later and fall into the biscuit tin), I got a small hummus and carrot sticks, a big box of sushi and some grapes. It was delicious. I'm absolutely stuffed and it was probably more than I really needed, but a bit too much lovely nutritious food is still a lot better than a semi-healthy sandwich and a load of biscuits later!

Absolutely Eolian. I have long had a theory that the fact that processed food etc is so devoid of nutrition means our bodies cry out for actual food. But we misinterpret the signals and eat more processed food. Giving our bodies enough proper nutrition can only be a good thing.

OP, how did you become obese at 7? Surely your parents regulated your food intake? They overfed you and then put you on a milkshake diet??

On another topic, someone mentioned Overeaters Anon, it's a great place to go for empathy & support. I go. You'll find your people there.

Re: my parents. I love them to death, this is not their fault and of course they didn’t do anything to harm me purposefully.

My mum didn’t struggle with her weight ever. When she hit middle age she did gain a bit of weight and this coincided with doctors telling her I could also do with losing weight. It was the mid 90’s and meal replacement was all the rage so that’s what she did for herself and also then thought it would be good for me. It worked for her, which reinforced her feeling it would work for me too.

Both my parents worked long hours so I was at child care from 6:30am until 7pm at night with school in the middle. From the age of 4 months old until I was 11 I ate all my meals at the child minders. When my mum and dad were then eating in the evening (around 8pm) they’d make me a plate of food up because I ate my dinner at the childminders at 5pm. At weekends I ate with them but had a big appitite from being used to eating essentially an extra meal in the week, so they’d give me adult sized portions to satisfy me.

I also stole food and ate it in secret for as long as I can remember. My dad does the same thing. He used to buy treats on his way home from work and eat them in the car. I used to know where he kept his foods (in his glove box, boot of his car and in the garage) and deliberately leave items of clothing/ my school bag in his car so I had an excuse to ask for his keys to retrieve it and access the food. I can’t have been older than 7 because it was before the milkshakes. Of course it intensified once I started slimfast, and my childminder refused to give me a milkshake as a meal so I’d have a meal at her house and 2 milkshakes in the day, then when I got home I replaced my evening meal with my parents with a massive binge on dads hidden food.

I don’t know my weights until I was 10, at which point I was 10 stone and increased a stone a year with my age until I was 19 and 19st. Stayed that weight or there abouts (between 15 and 19st) until I was 26, then got down to 14st with low carb. I’m now 27 and 17st, increasing up to 19 again fairly rapidly.

I’ve been working on eating mindfully. Making sure I really taste every mouthful and enjoy it. I’m lucky in that I enjoy the taste of healthy food, I just eat too much and too quickly while distracted and I pick during the day instead of waiting for meals.

I’m working on slowing down, putting my phone down while I eat and not eat at my usual breakneck speed.

The other thing to do is stop eating when you’re no longer hungry. It’s hard to get that signal if you eat too quickly. I’m working on always leaving at least one mouthful on my plate to prove to myself I don’t have to clean it every time.

I’m on a Facebook group for people who are using this method and some people have lost loads of weight doing this. (There is a £5 app you can buy to support it too)

It’s not easy to break those bad habits but gradually I’m going g it.

I joined Overeaters Anonymous 10 months ago, I've lost over 2st without dieting. Having 'dieted' my way to 17.4st, this is nothing short of miraculous. I now know that I'm ill not greedy but I'm not alone, the fellowship is amazing.
Perhaps try getting to a few meetings, you'll hear people with stories like yours who will be there to help and support your recovery.

Am so interested to read this thread.

WhatWouldOliviaPopeDo

A ‘giving up dieting’ support group is a great idea.

I’m also in a similar situation. Mum dieted very openly through my childhood; it was the 80s, and I used to go to slimming clubs with her, and to the ‘diet doctor’ with his injections and special pills - which we now know to have been Amphetamines, which completely screwed with her already fragile mental health. I’ve been surrounded by the D word for as long as I can remember, and they just don’t work. My brother was and possibly still is bulimic. I start a diet. Fail. Self-loath. Binge. Repeat. I can’t spare anymore brain power for tracking, weighing, Synning, pointing and the rest of it. Any other industry with such a huge failure rate, we’d be asking for our money back. No more.