To think most "gifted" children are from affluent backgrounds?

[Notapushymum1]

I was reading about Alma Deutscher, a child prodigy who started composing at age 6 and had her first opera performed at age 9. She is a child prodigy who is home schooled, her parents are scholars with interest in music, she had the best teachers from age 3 and according to Wikipedia:
^^
Professor Gjerdingen recommended to Deutscher's parents the renowned Swiss improvisor Rudolf Lutz, who then connected them with the Swiss musician Tobias Cramm.[51] Gjerdingen sent exercises and commented on technical aspects of Alma’s composition, while Alma had lessons in improvisation from Cramm via Skype, with the pair using the pedagogical method of the eighteenth century Italian partimenti, instructional bass lines used for the teaching of harmony, counterpoint and improvisation.[52] Alma quickly became fluent in the music syntax of eighteenth century music

She spends 5 hours a day on music lessons from "Renowned violin and piano teachers at Yehudi Menuhin music school".

AIBU to think that most kids will become "prodigies" with such input?

Do you have children Boho? Do they play music instruments? I just wondered if it had put you of them learning?

Riding, unfortunately we can't afford the best teachers.i think if I really wanted to create a music genius I would have to spend much more on lessons and instruments. But as I said DS doing music for fun, there is no goal to be excellent at music.

I've heard some of Alma's compositions and they're very deeply average. Derivative. Dull. And hugely reflective of the style studied and input from her tutors and parents. Poor thing has had such as odd childhood too. So, just given the sheer mediocrity of her work, I don't consider her a prodigy and she is absolutely a product of the 'advantages' afforded her by her circumstances.

I don't think many parents can afford lessons from "renowned Swiss improvisor Rudolf Lutz", or "Swiss musician Tobias Cramm", like Alma's parents :) I would not even know where to start looking for them :)

I think it depends what you mean by gifted.

A few years DS won a a small 6th form scholarship for engineering with an award ceremony for all the winners. DS goes to a comp in Herts with a mixed intake with a few disadvantaged. The award was a few hundred pounds for 6th form to spent on trips or equipment and a Smallpiece Trust workshop. Also the school gets a small sum of money
The application process is a design exam ie design a snow machine , the best of those then an interview at a university ie ds went to Imperial for the day. They awarded scholarships to those they felt were future leaders in Engineering. It is a brilliant scheme.
But, and a big but I came away from the award ceremony with the feeling that the majority of winners we very comfortably off anyway. They read a little out about each winner and most of them had climbed mountains in far of places as their greatest accomplishment. DS's was he had kayaked the Olympic course Lea Valley which was local to us. We are not poor or disadvantaged but I suspect we were compared to 90% of the winners who appeared very privileged.
I know this award wasn't really about money, it was more about encouraging engineering as a career.
They did send us a follow up questionnaire and I did point this out but not sure if they took this on board.
The application process is through the schools signing up and it costs a small amount to enter pupils , maybe they should make it free to schools in deprived areas etc. Ds school is connected to one of the livery companies in the City so they already have a connection and enter one or two a year with a successful candidate probably every 4 or 5 years.
DS had some really good experiences through it, and met some really interesting people

If DS wanted to be a music genius you'd know. That really comes from the child. I'm sure that what you've got in place for him is right for him.

Most children don't need Rudolf Lutz...

Riding, unfortunately he is the least musical out of 3. My middle DS taught himself how to play piano and guitar, I am not musical at all and find that fascinating. He also can sing 5 octaves which I understand is quite rare. My youngest is nowhere near that musical ability. But he probably could do very well and definitely get into a music school if that's was his/our ambition.

True, parents have a lot to do with it, but also parental encouragement. Andy and Jamie Murray, for example, have a mum who is a tennis coach and made sacrifices for them. They weren't from a wealthy background.

But regardless of that, most toddlers wouldn't even be able to sit still long enough to play the piano or the violin, just a few minutes of bashing the keys then moving on to something else.

So definitely, there is innate talent, but it won't lead to success without parental support and encouragement. Or pushiness in some cases.

I think understand your point OP. I'm sure that most gifted children never had reach their potential because they don't have the money or connections to make that happen.

But of course nowhere near Alma/David Garrett/Vanessa Mae. Who are all excellent musicians who had input from serious professionals from a very early age...

@yoyo - Poor attainment academically compared to what people could achieve - sure! But it just absolutely wasn't the point of the school. Even Oxbridge recognised this - a few people who went on to do music at Oxford were given extremely low (like ABB) or unconditional offers. Not sure if that would happen now though.

To the OP - The UK kids at the school did not come from super posh families - artsy musical families, sure - but not really rich. I really don't think its possible to simply pay for kids to reach that standard where the youngest in the school were already beyond grades. And if a kid is really talented, you don't need a brilliant teacher to obtain that at that age. I had 6 months worth of lessons with a proper teacher before I auditioned - before that, I had bog standard county primary school teachers.

My baby is one . I will teach him a few instruments myself as soon as he's able - if he especially likes something, I will try to get him lessons after he's outgrown mine. But i wouldn't encourage him to be a musician, and a specialist school over my dead body!

Thank you 2cats. I guess what I was trying to say is that surely children with musical ability should be distributed evenly across population, yet all the "geniuses" and "prodigies" come from a certain background... So the question is - are they really that special or do their parents push them to be "special"?

Congratulations on your 1 year old. I am so glad your experience hasn't put you entirely off music and you want to share that with your DC.

True, parents have a lot to do with it, but also parental encouragement. Andy and Jamie Murray, for example, have a mum who is a tennis coach and made sacrifices for them. They weren't from a wealthy background.

Not super-wealthy, but Andy Murray's formative years were spent in Barcelona at a high end academy which cost quite a bit of money. If he had to rely on local facilities and the British Lawn Tennis Associations he would not have reached the level he has.

I think the education at music schools is brilliant, and they don't all go onto study music.
Other destinations include Law, Engineering, medicine and of course music at a Uni, rather than the practical of a conservatoire.
They aren't really offering a rounded education, e.g we knew dd wouldn't study RE and have very little PE, but all the other subjects are there.

I'm sorry it didn't work out for you bobo I know what you mean about not encouraging your dc to be musicians, it's good to let them play and learn as children if that's what THEY want, but music is something that chooses you, not the other way round.
It's a profession you take if you couldn't imagine doing anything else.
Mine is thriving and loving the experience, but it was her idea rather than us as parents, and I think that makes a difference.

@gillybeanz

Good luck to your DC, really hope she has a different experience!

bobo
I know it doesn't suit all children and I'm careful when recommending it to other parents.
I don't think it's particularly necessary at all for children who want to study music, there must be thousands who attend conservatoires and Uni's who haven't attended.
Whilst it's working she can stay, but even if it's halfway through GCSE's and she isn't happy I'd bring her home and H.ed again.

I am sorry it was such a bad experience for you, they can be evil places at times and especially in the past with all the abuse

@gillybeanz - yes, and some so much not in the past. An infamous member of staff there in my time was only "paid off" a few years ago.

As long as she's happy its all good

Children with musical ability would be more evenly distributed if parents would stop calling for arts education cuts as it's seen as a worthless subject.

I went to a specialist music college for 6th form and didn't go into music (by that stage I was bored of it) but it served it's purpose for those with a passion for the subject.

If you have a child with an aptitude for something the majority or parents would seek out the right education - be it a grammar school for An academically able child, the London music college Saturday schools for a musical child, the Italia conti school for drama or a sports school for a sports protege. Why wouldn't you?

Bumpowder - why wouldn’t you?

Read the Guardian Prof Green link I posted....

The most talent musician i know has never had private lesson. He has bern part of steel band , can do his own atrangements for the full band. Did music at school, taught himself keyboards, then music at local reginal college followed by music/producing at specialist university.
He is from a deprived are bought by a single mum who is slightly helecopterish. He has also taught pans at schools si.nce he was 15/16.

Classic nature vs. Nurture debate! A degree of autism possibly helps some individuals too x

Bruffin, but was that child regarded as a prodigy? And has his compositions being played by orchestras in Vienna? Or has he had invitations to appear on Ophra/Ellen shows?

Have you ever seen a child from a working class background appear age 8 with his violin on a prestigious stage, like say David Garrett?

Herbal

My dh is a renowned musician and he says that every musician (not teacher of music) he knows has a certain degree of autism, he believes it's part of the dna of a musician and many are able to cope with the repetitiveness and constant practise required.
Even at the highest level musicians are practising for a few hours a day.