Surely it is not ok to say this..?

[CristinaYang]

I was out with a large group of work colleagues on Friday night. They all seem to be normal, nice people.

We were talking about places in Europe we had visited, and our favourite places. I said my favourite city so far was Berlin. I absolutely loved Berlin. The people were so friendly and welcoming and, I mentioned, that on the walking tours we did I had admired how they didn’t shy away from Germany’s role in the war. I liked the way the dealt with it in terms of their monuments and the way tour guides spoke etc. Granted I was only there a couple of days and I certainly wouldn’t claim to be any kind of expert but I felt it was sensitively and honestly spoken about but there were no attempts at denial or justification. This is a summary of the conversation, a few people chipped in and agreed with me etc.

Anyway one woman then pipes up “I’m sorry, is anyone else just not ok with Germans, even now?!” I was aghast and thought oh dear that’s awkward. I was then even more aghast by the people that nodded in agreement, made comments about relatives killed in concentration camps and how they still “feel weird”, “can’t warm to them” etc.

But how can they blame Germans for that these days? It’s an entirely different generation of people and things have moved on. You can’t blame individuals for it. I realise that may be simplistic but as I said I’m no expert and I don’t want to spout off about things I don’t fully understand.

Drink was taken (not by me, i wasn’t drinking) but no one seemed to be out and out hammered.

Is this a secretly commonly held view these days? I can’t imagine that it is...

The UK did stuff just as bad in India and all the other places we colonised. But we never learn anout that in schools, so convenient to just forget.

Here in Korea everyone hates the Japanese and I really can’t stand how they talk about them. Yes, there is a long history between them. I’m Scottish, I get it. But ffs, talking about how you hate a group of people is not going to change anything and makes me think you’re just as bad.

The worst ‘ ethnic cleansing’ was committed by the Americans against the native Americans. Hardly ever gets a mention against the German ethnic cleansing during the war which wasn’t just about Jews but somehow the German dissidents, intellectuals, disabled people, gypsies, homosexuals etc seem to be forgotten. It needs to be remembered as an horrific thing which happened but consigned to history. Constantly dragging it up and beating the German race - the majority of whom weren’t even alive- serves no good purpose and only keeps the hatred alive.
The Germans have never hidden from their past. They have kept several camps which serve to remember the atrocities and have the holocaust memorial in Berlin. Somebody earlier said they didn’t feel a statue was enough but I don’t know what else they want- several Germans gassed in a public place twice a year for time immemorial? Or a few Germans wearing hair shirts flaggelating themselves? It’s really awful to keep blaming a race for something which their ancestors did. Don’t hear anybody constantly shouting out at all of the different races which killed and segregated the native Americans/ aborigines/ genocides in Russia and China which killed millions and millions more people than the Jews killed in WW2.
The British are more like Germans than any other nation in europe and it’s just awful to try and keep going a hatred for a dead generation.

The German people did not know what was really happening

This is a myth. Not that it's relevant to Germans of today.

I agree with you OP, Berlin is an incredible city which is dripping with history.

@Morgankitten

"UK concentration camps"

Your stupidity is offensive. Do you know what a concentration camp is?

take Look into the Boer War and what the British did in Kenya. The Brits absolutely had concentration camps.

They knew. Not only did they know then, they know now (re GWOT) etc. Those who spoke up, even in Western countries like UK and Australia, were silenced. Permanently. We are still not safe from this sort. They all look the other way when we are harassed and knocked off and they will again.

I grew up with a German surname, Dads german. At school got a fair bit of casual racism and once beaten up on way home from school by boy who said the Germans had killed his Grandad. ( not Jewish, soldier)
Went out in West end with my parents 10 years ago. Late tickets to theatre to see Sound of Music. Honestly was so offended by the cartoon portrayal of a Germans on my Dads behalf. This portrayal of Germany just wouldn’t be allowed if it were of any other race.
Some of the headlines about Germany in the tabloids, Especially if it’s football, always reference the war. Its crazy.

If you cannot distinguish between historical war criminals and German people that you might interact with day to day, you’re an idiot

^ This.

And I say this with a Jewish DH who lost many ancestors to the Nazi's in WWII (and, to address other PPs arguments, pretty much all Irish Catholic heritage on my side.)

Where I live in France their is still anti-British sentiment from the 100 years war. There is still anti-German sentiment for the occupation. But I think/hope maybe the last generation to feel that way.

If you cannot distinguish between historical war criminals and German people that you might interact with day to day, you’re an idiot

I think this is true. But I don't think countries are absolved of their responsibility for past actions just because the generation that committed those actions is gone. The impact of those actions is still felt and people aren't wrong to recognise the role Germany played in the wars. Just as people from India and many other countries aren't wrong to think England was responsible for the impact of our Empire and or to think that we, as a country rather than as individuals, can be blamed for our actions. We could all do with being a bit humbler.

I had a very conflicted time when I lived in Germany at the beginning of the noughties for a few years. I was brought up being spoon fed that the only good German is a dead German. I’m mid 40’s. I’ve now escaped from this and a myriad other ridiculous beliefs from my oppressive upbringing.

Dear God. Has nobody learned anything from Fawlty Towers!!! Don't mention the war!!!

I wonder if they struggle to look at themselves in the mirror when thinking about all the crimes the British have committed (even against their own people) over the years.

I agree HolyShmoly

Also, I'm wary of another Holocaust happening again.

The Srebrenica massacre and ethnic cleansing of Bosnians was horrific. We must never get complacent. It could even happen in Britain.

I was shocked when a German friend (approx 40yrs old) said during her childhood they were taught to be ashamed to be German because of what happened during the war. National pride was not just low, but actively discouraged, they were taught that the German people shouldn't be proud of who they are because of the way the world holds a view against them since the war.

I was amazed she felt like this, and similarly amazed to hear you say there are people that DO feel like that... as if being born there makes you responsible for what others did before you were born etc.

If my beloved late Grandfather could forgive "the Germans" for killing his entire family in Sachsenhausen (he was also imprisoned for a short while before rescue), then I think some random Brit can too.

user
Erm, I'm Irish & I can say confidently that I trust the British, my DP is British.

Really annoys me that people are still saying this now in this day & age, sad! I'm not 'Anglo-Irish' either, if that's even relevant nowadays.

Also, what on earth would you have prejudice towards Germans for?? It is actually comical you would say that! Have you been to Germany & met a lot of German people?? 'Cause I have! And they're lovely, great craic, and very welcoming people. Strange perceptions you are holding here.

Makes me so embarrassed that I'm from the same country as someone who thinks like this

There are a whole bunch of morons like these, OP. Locally, a lady took her puppy out and she met a group of people with their dogs. She asked them if any of them had german shepherds, because her pup is one. They all rounded up to 'teach' her that it is not acceptable to address the breed as 'german' shepherds and that she should call it an 'alsatian'. She obviously did not and it makes them all so angry. They actually said that people will hate her dog if he is known as the GS dog.

the British think they are perfect,

What, all Brits? . Oh the irony of posting on a thread about sweeping generalisations of an entire nation. You're no better than OP's colleagues.

It is not ok especially if you are talking about younger generations. I live in an area in Europe that was under Nazi occupation, there are plaques in our neighbourhood commemorating young men and women (mostly 18 or 19) who were shot in the street. My MIL vividly remembered this happening and is still not keen on Germans although she also knows they are not the same Germans who are around now! I think if you have lived through it, it is slightly different.

zoflorabore

Your DGM is absolutely right. My Dad was in Germany at the end of the war with the BEF. He said that young boys from the Hitler youth were sent to fight them. My Dad and his army pals refused and told them them to go home. Just awful.

OP that level of ignorance is just incredible.

I am German.
We learn about the Holocaust at school from year 9, where (at least at my school) students also visit a concentration camp.
In year 11 we had a trip to Berlin, visiting various exhibitions and memorials to this time. I think most Germans are very aware of their past and very ashamed of those who aren't (looking at you, right-wing parties).
It's true, we are not exactly brought up with being proud of being a German, the sentiment is more "You can't be proud of being a certain nationality because being born on a certain soil to parents of a certain nationality isn't your achievement". The only time when people have German flags out is for the world cup and similar events.
We might come across as cold but I promise we are not and most Germans even have a sense of humour. The latter might be a surprise, my host child once said "Catherine! You laughed, now they won't let you back home" (isn't he precious?)
I am quite aware of my family's history and my country's history and most people I know are, and were aware of it before it was a topic at school because that "culture of rememberance" is everywhere (at least in my hometown), prompting even children to ask questions.
I have never experienced any comments like the one of your colleague, OP, but I think my mum had heard of these sentiments before (especially in the wake of Brexit) and was a bit anxious to send me here.
As odd as Germans might come across, we aren't Nazis or racists by default and most Germans are trying hard to get rid of that "bad reputation"
I just don't get why everyone likes Berlin so much but that might be because I am from Munich and therefore I'm biased ;)

the view doesnt surprise me and it happens in reference to other wars and attacks e.g. being wary of Muslims, israelis and Palestinians, the Japanese.. etc.

it's closed minded and unfair but you're naive to be surprised. I think this view is still alive and kicking

either accept it and avoid politics with them or hang out with other people.

@Catherine I really like Munich.

@tortellini
Yay