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AIBU?

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Original poster

Surely it is not ok to say this..?

229 replies

CristinaYang · 19/03/2018 21:27

I was out with a large group of work colleagues on Friday night. They all seem to be normal, nice people.

We were talking about places in Europe we had visited, and our favourite places. I said my favourite city so far was Berlin. I absolutely loved Berlin. The people were so friendly and welcoming and, I mentioned, that on the walking tours we did I had admired how they didn’t shy away from Germany’s role in the war. I liked the way the dealt with it in terms of their monuments and the way tour guides spoke etc. Granted I was only there a couple of days and I certainly wouldn’t claim to be any kind of expert but I felt it was sensitively and honestly spoken about but there were no attempts at denial or justification. This is a summary of the conversation, a few people chipped in and agreed with me etc.

Anyway one woman then pipes up “I’m sorry, is anyone else just not ok with Germans, even now?!” I was aghast and thought oh dear that’s awkward. I was then even more aghast by the people that nodded in agreement, made comments about relatives killed in concentration camps and how they still “feel weird”, “can’t warm to them” etc.

But how can they blame Germans for that these days? It’s an entirely different generation of people and things have moved on. You can’t blame individuals for it. I realise that may be simplistic but as I said I’m no expert and I don’t want to spout off about things I don’t fully understand.

Drink was taken (not by me, i wasn’t drinking) but no one seemed to be out and out hammered.

Is this a secretly commonly held view these days? I can’t imagine that it is...

OP posts:
Ihavesomeballs · 19/03/2018 22:00

I have lived in Germany, have met some really lovely German people. But when we went to a pub outside of Garmisch-Partenkirchen, they had a picture of Hitler..... I found the following of the rules very amusing.... NO ONE crosses the Rd until the green man is flashing.....

ghostyslovesheets · 19/03/2018 22:02

Where was that Ihavesomeballs I lived in Garmisch

ikeepaforkinmypurse · 19/03/2018 22:02

absolute idiot and racist.

I know enough people, who lived through that war, lost relatives in the camps, if these people make a distinction between a German and a Nazi and do not consider the younger generations any different than any other people, then others should just stop being attention-seeker with nonsense comments.

Yes, "normal" people in Germany did nothing about the camps, because they were scared or just trying to survive as it was. Some were trying to live a normal life in the war, others were soldiers fighting for their countries. A few were nazis and committed the atrocities. What are we doing about the genocides that are happening RIGHT NOW? If the answer is "nothing", then it's unlikely we would have done much either then.

SpringNowPlease2018 · 19/03/2018 22:02

And my dad likes Donald Trump
Is that my fault according to her?

Btw OP, Grey's is not half the show it was now you've left Grin

Cornishclio · 19/03/2018 22:04

The British have committed more atrocities than any other country so entirely hypocritical to blame all Germans for the Nazis atrocities. Maybe other countries blame us for all the crimes committed in our history. I blame history teaching in schools for this who glossed over the bad things we did particularly when we were more powerful than we are today in the days of the British Empire.

Original poster
CristinaYang · 19/03/2018 22:04

Haha I quite agree Spring I was DEVASTATED when she (I?) left. It’s just not the same.

OP posts:
Ihavesomeballs · 19/03/2018 22:05

ghostyslovesheets

Ooh can't remember, was 20 yes ago. Some friends took us to a village in the mountains. I really loved living on Garmisch-Partenkirchen, it was like living in a fairy tale! I worked at a hotel, Queens or something?

PuntCuffin · 19/03/2018 22:06

I don't know a single German who isn't deeply ashamed by their history. Not on a personal, individual level, but there is a strong sense of national shame. Their ability to face up to their past, to be honest about it and to want to build relationships across borders is remarkable. It is despicable to still be blaming Germans of today for the actions of two or more generations ago.

So very different to the nasty isolationist mentality in the UK. Some sort of weird national belief in our own superiority which harks back to the days of the glorious empire and Queen Victoria on the throne.

SpringNowPlease2018 · 19/03/2018 22:07

Ach well OP at least you went a politically neutral country Grin

Srsly, this chat happened in England in 2018? the mind boggles.

BambooBra · 19/03/2018 22:09

Dh had a mate when we started going out. Him and his then gf were quite nice. One night we went out for dinner and he said in a conspiring voice "I am not a racist and have nothing against people from other countries but I REALLY don't like Asians."

Hmm I asked him "like.... ALL Asians?" What a muppet. I refused to socialise with them after that. I lost all respect for the guy.

PositivelyPERF · 19/03/2018 22:10

Fuck, this thread is just dripping with xenophobic.

pinkginanyone · 19/03/2018 22:10

I think it would be very niave to think this wasn’t the case, even now. Surely every country has something like this, English against the Germans, Irish against the English, native Americans against the Americans, etc.

The stigmas still exist and prob always will! Do I think she was right to espress it, no, however everyone is entitled to their view especially is it has directly effect them as others can’t feel what they feel first hand.

MrsLupo · 19/03/2018 22:13

There has been a lot of self-loathing in the post-war German psyche and I agree with pp who have said that modern Germany has been unflinching in its confrontation of its past - something Britain could learn a great deal from.

Definitely not OK to talk like this, but saying things that are not OK about whole groups of people and thinking it makes you a purveyor of uncomfortable truths instead of a nasty little bigot seems to be the fashion lately. Sad

Whisperquietly · 19/03/2018 22:17

The British have committed more atrocities than any other country so entirely hypocritical to blame all Germans for the Nazis atrocities.

Cornishclio, that is absolute crap.

katzensocken · 19/03/2018 22:18

My great-grandfather was a Pole, shot to death in the street by a German soldier for breaking curfew. My grandmother was sent to a working camp with her sister, her sister later died as the British mistakenly bombed the camp thinking it was a German weapons base.

I lived in Germany for four years and relate strongly with my Polish identity but I have no anger towards present day Germans unless they harbour far-right views, I also accept that many Poles were also complicit in the Holocaust.

ThinkingOfCeline · 19/03/2018 22:19

Given the treatment of Boer women and children in the British made Boer concentration camps and the torture, rape and murder recounted from Mau-Mau camps I don't think any Brits are in a position to judge someone for the literal sins of their father

user1497863568 · 19/03/2018 22:20

I'm Irish and we still don't trust the British, Germans and even some Irishmen (the Anglo-Irish sort). The scary truth is that it was and still very much is a long running collaboration to liquidate/suppress the peasantry of Europe. The problem is the 'born to rule' aristocracy, not the nationalities involved. 'Things must constantly change to stay the same' sort of motto. The average German or Brit doesn't do well out of this either though.

mineofuselessinformation · 19/03/2018 22:22

I'll second what Puntcuffin said.
I went on a German exchange with students several years ago. We were treated very hospitably by our hosts, and it saddened me that they felt the need to apologise for what had happened in WW2.
Yes, I suppose there are a few Nazis in Germany still, but they're few and far between.
To assume otherwise is disgraceful.

NotAllTimsWearCapes · 19/03/2018 22:23

I'm Irish and we still don't trust

By “we” do you mean you and your family?

Thehamsterspajamas · 19/03/2018 22:23

YANBU. How on earth and why on earth should today’s generation if Germans have to feel shit for what happened in WW2? I’m Jewish and my DB has lived in North Rhine Westphalia for over years. The only anti semitism he has encountered was from 2 UK expats. I feel very at home when I visit and the people I’ve met have been nothing other than friendly and helpful. German Friends of DB and his partner are loyal, generous and sweet. I hate unfairness and having problems with German people because of their past is unfair to say the least.

Thehamsterspajamas · 19/03/2018 22:24

My DB has lived in NRW for over 30 years I meant to say.

waterlego6064 · 19/03/2018 22:31

That's awful. I visited the Black Forest area last summer, and found the people there to be amongst the most warm and friendly I have met anywhere. They all spoke beautiful English, and wanted to find out what we thought of their town etc. They also all wanted to know how on earth Brexit had happened- horrified isn't the word!

HolyShmoly · 19/03/2018 22:33

I don't think many Irish people would say 'I’m sorry, is anyone else just not ok with British people, even now' 'I just can't warm to them.'

I think most of us are able to distinguish between the orders of British politicians/the actions of the British Army and the general British populace.
If you struggle with that, I really recommend that you broaden your horizons.

nocoolnamesleft · 19/03/2018 22:34

My granddad was, like so many of his generation, in WWII. He was in the medical corps. He saw friends killed. He saw comrades he could not save. He smelled and heard people on fire, when he troop ship was bombed.

When we were kids, he took us to the Cannock Chase war cemetery. He could easily have chosen a memorial, or cemetery, for only allied troops. But he very deliberately took us to see one dedicated to the enemy fallen. Because he wanted us to know that war was a terrible tragic waste on all sides. And that he knew that the ordinary troops had not all been the bad guys, but rather that their leaders had been.

My granddad was a good man.

CoolCarrie · 19/03/2018 22:35

Spot on NotAll, the British think they are perfect, there isn’t a country in the world without blood on their hands somewhere down the line, but Americans, for example like to think they are the policemen of the world, while the British are the world’s nannies!