Surely it is not ok to say this..?

[CristinaYang]

I was out with a large group of work colleagues on Friday night. They all seem to be normal, nice people.

We were talking about places in Europe we had visited, and our favourite places. I said my favourite city so far was Berlin. I absolutely loved Berlin. The people were so friendly and welcoming and, I mentioned, that on the walking tours we did I had admired how they didn’t shy away from Germany’s role in the war. I liked the way the dealt with it in terms of their monuments and the way tour guides spoke etc. Granted I was only there a couple of days and I certainly wouldn’t claim to be any kind of expert but I felt it was sensitively and honestly spoken about but there were no attempts at denial or justification. This is a summary of the conversation, a few people chipped in and agreed with me etc.

Anyway one woman then pipes up “I’m sorry, is anyone else just not ok with Germans, even now?!” I was aghast and thought oh dear that’s awkward. I was then even more aghast by the people that nodded in agreement, made comments about relatives killed in concentration camps and how they still “feel weird”, “can’t warm to them” etc.

But how can they blame Germans for that these days? It’s an entirely different generation of people and things have moved on. You can’t blame individuals for it. I realise that may be simplistic but as I said I’m no expert and I don’t want to spout off about things I don’t fully understand.

Drink was taken (not by me, i wasn’t drinking) but no one seemed to be out and out hammered.

Is this a secretly commonly held view these days? I can’t imagine that it is...

Yabvvu
It’s easier to have your stance if you had no relatives murdered by the nazi’s.

It may we’ll be easier but that dirsn’t Mean it’s ok for you to wallow in racism Mission

You do realise that Germans are not all nazis right? And that a large number of Germans were actually killed by Nazi’s

My great-uncle was vivisected (actually cut open whilst alive) by the Japanese. I have several friends with Japanese heritage. If you cannot distinguish between historical war criminals and German people that you might interact with day to day, you’re an idiot

German living in the UK here. I've never come across anyone who seemed the least bit bothered by my nationality.

Although I live in London where people are generally open-minded I've met a number of people in rural Kent through my English DH. This includes his grandma, who lived through the war and experienced German bombing firsthand. Her main concern seemed to be to get me to eat as much cake as possible.

I would understand some reservations among the elder generation though. I do feel sightly misplaced on remembrance Day and try to tone down my accent a little...

Hoppinggreen: Some of the comments they have had at School,have been awful, even the “jokes” are not very nice.

Just shows how mindless people can be. There is a certain irony in General/President Eisenhower having a German surname.

Erm, you do realise German does not = Nazi? Right? Many Germans were killed by nazis too.

Many more Germans collaborated with the regime. Came out and kicked their Jewish neighbours and forced them to scrub the floor in the street.

And comparing the number of German’s killed to the industrial scale mass slaughter intended to delete an entire race forever is HUGELY fucking offensive.

I've honestly never heard anyone of my generation say anything derogatory about the Germans, and quite rightly. I have some lovely, lovely German friends who are very warm people.

@missiondecision. That's actually a really offensive thing to say. Not all Germans were Nazis and you can't carry hatred through from generation to generation. My Great Uncle died in a concentration camp. My German friends aren't any less lovely because that happened.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_concentration_camps

The British quite literally invented concentration camps.

She was BU and racist. To your question though, human beings are typically U and racist, so, I'm not surprised by her comments.

I don't dislike or 'not warm' to Germans, of course not.

There is though a part of me that wonders what the persons family experienced during and after the war, if they had joined the Hitler Youth, or had managed to live outside of all that.

But then there was a fair number of my family lost in Auschwitz, so I'm unlikely to just forget that Germans perpetrated that. And no that's not me saying all Germans were Nazis, before anyone says it.

OP, your friend is and ignorant xenophobe. Does she actually know any German people?

I think the holocaust is quite possibly the most horrific event in world history. And many Germans collaborated in that event.

I think the holocaust is quite possibly the most horrific event in world history. And many Germans collaborated in that event

But you can’t seriously hate current day Germans for that can you.

And comparing the number of German’s killed to the industrial scale mass slaughter intended to delete an entire race forever is HUGELY fucking offensive.

I didn’t compare it. I said the nazis killed Germans too. Along with the Jewish people, the gypsies, the disabled people, the gay people. It wasn’t a comparison.

we are all member states of the EU. It's not run by Germany so not sure where the idea of them financially screwing us comes from

Its very much a 70's/80's thing. But you still hear it spouted. And far right memes, which no matter how much you vet your friends lists and block various sites, the odd one creeps through

Germany has worked hard to face up to what it did as a nation. The curriculum looks in depth at its awful past and tries to teach tolerance and acceptance. The UK has conveniently swept under the carpet its role in slavery and the atrocities committed during its imperialist past.
I say this as some one who has lost close relatives to the Nazi's.

"@missiondecision. That's actually a really offensive thing to say. Not all Germans were Nazis and you can't carry hatred through from generation to generation. My Great Uncle died in a concentration camp. My German friends aren't any less lovely because that happened."

Quite. Think about what dehumanising things we did to millions of poor people across the 'commonwealth'. Then imagine being judged for that, well actually we are being increasingly judged and rightly so but as a nation not individuals.

How do they feel about the UK concentration camps well I feel it's daft to even call them that - no one was systematically murdered in British INTERNMENT camps

totally not the same thing at all

I love Germany - Lived there for a while - crazy to hate all Germans because of the actions of some - quiet Nazi like really

stupid to blame every German person for what happened so long ago when they weren't even born.

I wouldn't blame my husband's grandfather for not being keen on Germans or Germany since he was put in a Nazi concentration camp with his Mother as a child. My husband holds no ill will towards German people though.

I have many relatives who fought in WWII, but I don't think it would be reasonable for me to hold a grudge against the Germans or Japanese over that either.

As someone from the states I know I don't like it when people have tried to make me feel bad over slavery and civil rights era events that happened before I was even born. So it would be pretty hypocritical of me to hold Germans to a different standard. Especially since many Germans had little or no awareness of everything that had taken place until after the war.

I think the holocaust is quite possibly the most horrific event in world history. And many Germans collaborated in that event

Most of whom are now dead. I don't think it's right to hold a grudge against the current population of Germany.

ihavesomeballs So did some Italians, Croatians, Polish people, The Vatican, France and many many more
My Uni dissertation was on non German collaboration in The Holocaust
It’s pretty shocking stuff
The vast majority of German soldiers were fighting for their country in the same way our soldiers were

I think it’s a ridiculously stupid view to hold. I mean many, many Germans at the time didn’t even WANT to fight in the war but were made to. People these days are aware Hitler was mental.

And comparing the number of German’s killed to the industrial scale mass slaughter intended to delete an entire race forever is HUGELY fucking offensive.*

Why? Why do ordinary everyday people killed by the Nazis deserve any less sympathy because they don’t share our nationality? Are you seriously Suggesting that those ordinary German lives didn’t matter because they shared the same nationality as the people who murdered them? And that aggression and discrimination against ordinary Germans today is ok?

In which case how do you feel about:

Partition
The Opium wars
The Boer war

Are you sure none of your ancestors were involved?

My late dgm was German so I am a quarter German and proud. She was just a little kid when the war broke out, living in Cologne ( amazing city ).

She met an English man and moved here and had 3 children, worked multiple jobs as was widowed in her thirties, she had a bloody hard life.

My dgm was made to join Hitler youth. The German people did not know what was really happening. They were innocent citizens and were caught up in the atrocity too.
My dgm saw her own father killed when she was 11 yrs old. When the army were down to the last men, she told me how they sent little boys onto the street to fight.

How anyone can carry this grudge on all these years later is beyond me.

I lost people in 9/11 and relatives in WW2. My dad witnessed killings in sectarian violence. Does your mad colleague think I shouldn't warm to anyone, I wonder?

She sounds bonkers. When you said you were out for drinks, I almost asked if you went out in the 1940s!
I don't hold anyone responsible for actions other than their own.

Blaming people for the "sins" of their predecessors ...lbeyind bonkers.

My Grandad fought in WWII as a pilot. Many of his friends were killed. We had relations on the continent and as far as we know every single one of them was killed in a concentration camp.

He didn't blame "The Germans" and would have been very angry with one of us if we had.

If she holds today's Germans accountable for atrocities of the past, I'm sure she takes personal responsibility for the atrocities of the British, including slavery, famine in India, famine in Ireland, Boer concentration camps, partitioning of India & Pakistan & the Mau Mau uprising.