To make DS2 go to the same high school as his elder sibling?

[Theromanempire]

It is a couple of years off yet but DS2 (year 4) is upset because he will have to go to a high school he doesn't want to go to. The only reason is because his close friends are all going to a different one. I get that and I do feel awful because he does struggle to make friends.

However, the high school he wants to go to is totally impractical as it is 20 minutes in the opposite direction of where I need to be to get on the motorway to get to work so would add 40 minutes on to my journey if I was to take him and we couldn't pick him up. We can't really justify additional bus fares either.

The high school DS1 goes to is within walking distance/on my way to work so totally practical. There isn't much in between the quality of the 2 schools (both aren't great but the quality of schools in the town isn't great anyway). We didn't even consider the school he wants to go to for DS1 because of the impracticality of it plus it is in a really rough part of town.

Plus for purely selfish reasons I want them to be at the same school so they have the same holidays etc.

I am fed up of having the same conversation with DS2 about it and he triggers my guilt every time as I know he will struggle to settle without his close friends. But then again, how many children remain in the same friendship groups anyway??

AIBU?

Its not totally impractical at all. You just don’t want to pay the bus fares. I don’t know how tight is tight but I do feel rather sorry for your DS2 in this.

Bus fares is only an argument if every other cost at both schools is the same (uniform, trips, general day to day expenses). If you look at secondary education threads, you'll see these can vary wildly.

If the two schools are in the same academy trust, they possibly synchronise holidays (is the case round here).

Has your DS been to see either school (have any of his friends who seem to be adamant they are going there!?) - I think you should take emotion out of the argument and make a proper choice of school based on all factors -when you get to the start of Year 6.

"Oh just seen DS1 got to choose as well. No wonder DS2 is upset, that’s incredibly unfair."
But the OP has said that DS1 didn't have the option of choosing the school DS2 wants to go to because of the cost of transport.
It's all very well saying 'just pay for the bus', but if it's anything like here that's not a trivial cost. A friend's dd moved schools - same distance but no free transport as not the catchment school - it costs her over £20/week in bus fares. Of course for some people that's easy to absorb, but not everyone has several hundred quid a year floating around spare.

I am fully prepared to give him a choice of the same schools as DS1 was given - the one he wants was not one of them!

He will know children as there will be other children from his school going there- they are just not his close friends. Ironically the reason why 2 of them will almost certainly be going to the other school is because they have older siblings there

I've just had a look at the bus routes - I think he would have a good 20 minute walk to the bus stop and would have to leave the house a good 30 minutes before DS1 would need to. That might change his mind 😂 his friends who would be going will be getting driven there and back so he would be on the bus by himself which might not appeal to him either.

Yes we don't have much spare money - call me tight but I call it being realistic.

Good point about looking at the whole cost so I will do that

Plus the school is in a very deprived part of town so we just did not consider it as an option for DS1 and is another reason why I don't want DS2 to go.

I think people are being harsh on you OP. You are the parent. I did let my dd1 chose her school and she chose one her friends were not going too, she made new friends and no longer has contact (or asks about) her old friends. The bus here costs over £200 a term if your out of catchement, luckily we were a few ft in catchement and got it free but I can see that it’s a lot of money for parents to fork out (crazy money). My dd2 goes to a different high school in a different county, they often have different school holidays but we deal with it.

If you can’t afford the bus fair to the other school then I think your right to send him to the same school as his sibling, it makes sense ind it’s the easier option. He will get over it, he will make new friends and some of the kids in his year will be going there anyway. Kids can’t always get to choose if it’s not practical.

This happened with my cousins, she was admant she didnt want to go to her brother school because her friends were going the other from about the same age and again they were opposite sides of the city. After years of whining about it when push came to shove and she had to pick she chose her brothers school because high school seemed less scary with him there.

Maybe the same will happen to you? I would try not to worry about it just yet

Is the school he wants even within your catchment area? If you say it’s a good 30 minutes further away than the more local one he could apply there but might still not get in and could end up with a different school entirely. Similarly with his friends, they might apply for the further school but there are no guarantees with secondaries and the catchments seem to change year on year.

This happened to someone I know recently, child wanted one school partly because that was where the majority of their friends applied to, turns out the catchments were changed hugely for this year’s intake and child in question got into the school they wanted but the majority of their friends didn’t because of the variance in catchment areas. So they got the school they wanted even though the parents wanted a different one, and turns out that the reason they wanted the school i.e. because most of their friends “would be going there,” turned out not to be the case. and most of the friends are now going to the other school.....

IME friendship groups change hugely from primary to secondary anyway, and many schools separate children from the same schools into different classes at secondary in order to encourage them to branch out anyway.

I would only let my kids have a say in the choice of secondary school is if they were coming at it from an acadmeic point of view. Eg "Mum I want to do a STEM type job and that school is a technology college", "mum that secondary school does loads of drama and has dead good facilities so Id lile that as you know i love to act and perform".

"All my mates are going there" is nowhere near a good enough reason.

Visit all the schools. Then decide.

Both DC should have the option of going to a school they are happy at.

And two years from now you could be in a different job with a different commute.

I think you should be firmly saying to him that it's too early to discuss, and you'll take him to visit schools when the time comes and you can make a decision from there. Don't close any doors, don't make any promises. Try to stop this from even being a thought in his head.

But I'll be honest, I think it's unfair not to allow him to have a choice in his school selection. I didn't, and I felt as though I was less important than my sibling, my choices and ambitions and opinions didn't count to my parents.

If bus fares is an issue, I respect that as a realistic factor to consider. But I'd be scrimping in every other area possible if it meant my anxious child had a better chance at being happy at school.

Thanks for the responses- it's given me lots to think about.

I think we are in catchment for both so I don't think getting in either would be an issue. DS2's friends will, in any case, get in because they will have siblings there.

I think part of my dilemma is that I know friendships change and I am not sure it is a reason for a particular school but I also know DS2 struggles. I do also have my reservations about 2 of his friends and I am not sure it is a particularly healthy friendship.

Oh it is so hard!! I agree I need to just shut down all talk for the next 18 months. I suspect I will be in the same job with the same commute as I have no plans to change and it is a very stable job.

I must be old school then, I didn't give my Dd a choice, she is in year 8.
I sent her to a special program they have before the summer, and then the school says if she is eligible to go, and she was so I sent her. Second chice school was/is being attended by the girls who bullied her, so I would have had to choose school three (of four) and Dh and I drive her there and back each day. School 4 she wanted most because they have a beauty therapy class my reason not to send her as she would coast and not do her best if she can get away with it

Couldn't the friends parents take him with their kid?

Don't kids get free bus passes anymore?

If they dont, and he's adamant he wants to go there could he do jobs to earn his bus fare?

If like to know how much this bus fare is that it presents such a problem.

When I was at school bus fare was 70p a day! 40p in the morning and 30p in the afternoon. The last time I got a bus they wanted fucking £6 return!!! 😱 That must only be a 30min journey, 1hr round trip.

Could he cycle there? Obviously it’s hard to judge as he’s only 8 or 9 now, but if it’s a realistic journey on a bike for an 11 year old then get him used to cycling as much as possible now with supervision and then gradually on his own.

I agree that to adults “cause all my friends are going there” is a stupid reason to choose a school, but to an 8 or 9 year old that’s a huge important thing. Especially a child who is anxious and finds it hard to make friends.

I think for a child with particular talents at specific subjects or sports or drama, it’s easier to choose a school where they won’t know anyone if the school will help them pursue their hobby or passion. For a child who’s an all rounder or who’s particular talents aren’t covered by the curriculum there’s often less draw to a particular school, so where friends are going is a bigger issue.

I think the bus fare is maybe £15 a week? Not a lot to some of you maybe.

I don't want to rely on his friends parents to take him...what if they are off forever reason? What are the chances of that arrangement lasting for the full 1st year, let alone 5??

If his friends are being driven could you not come to an arrangement to share petrol costs with another parent in exchange for lifts?

It sounds like you’ve made your mind up and aren’t prepared to look at any alternatives. If you had any other genuine reasons I might have more sympathy, but you just don’t seem prepared to take any other factors into account when choosing his school than the blooming bus fare.

Your son is telling you well thought out and pretty reasonable concerns about his choice of school. And the only thing you seem to be bothered about is saving a pretty paltry amount of money that you won’t even consider economies to cover.
That just sounds like you don’t think the money is worth spending on him. You treat him unequally to his older brother who was allowed to choose. You are basically telling him you’re not arsed about his education as long as it’s the cheapest option for you.

I feel really, really sorry for him. You should think about the message you are sending to him. That his happiness isn’t really worth a couple of quid to you.

Incidentally, I did a quick advanced search and your previous posts certainly don’t make you sound like somebody who would struggle to find a couple of quid a week. Quite the opposite in fact...

Oh come on, he's being given exactly the same choices as his brother

Just how big is this town?

I’m sort of the opinion he goes where you want him to go. My eldest DS went to local school - which is ok , not wonderful, but due to logistics and me working full time it was the most practical. DS2 followed - again logistics wise it suited and is local - admittedly most of their friends were going too.

No he’s not. He’s been told which school he is going to. He hasn’t even had the limited choice his brother had.

Because apparently his Mum who has an extensive posting history mainly based on buying expensive designer stuff for herself won’t stump up bus fare!

bundlesmad I own one Radley handbag (birthday present) and a couple of Boden things which are at least 2 years old so am really interested about how many designer things you think I have...

I am giving DS2 the exact same choice I have DS1...which is limited due to options within the area.

I don't think you should insist a younger sibling goes to the same school as their older sibling, just because that is where the older sibling goes.

so, to reply to your title / opening question, then yes YABU

However

Friendships change at secondary school. None of my 3 dc remained close to the people they were close to in Primary school - no dramatic falling outs, just a bigger population and they became close to other people.

Also
Your reasoning isn't about his sibling being there, your reasoning is about practicalities of transport, and costs of transport. Which I would factor in. If there were a way of finding the transport costs for a particularly great school for that dc then that would be one thing, but, from what you say, at present, this schools doesn't offer anything more than the other two he could choose from, so I probably wouldn't make it an option.

However, as others have said, I wouldn't keep going over it with him now. I'd say you haven't yet decided, and, when the time came you'd look at all 3 possible schools, and you could all talk about it then, at that time, when you'd got the relevant and up to date information to make an informed decision.

There's a lot to be said for going to a secondary school within walking distance, not least that it saves money, is good exercise and should mean getting home at a sensible time even if staying for clubs etc.

Y4 children do talk about the secondary schools they're planning to go to, often without any understanding of the admissions process or the fact that friendship groups often change as the children move to a new school.

My own Y4 DC knows they'll almost certainly be headed for the same secondary as my Y8 DC is at... unless there's a very good reason for that not to happen. It's a good school, is within walking distance and offers opportunities that I think will appeal. DC1 did have more of a say than DC2 will but some of that is because DC1 was determined to do the 11+ and so looked at a couple of grammar schools. DC2 isn't interested in the 11+ but will still be given the opportunity to visit other schools and to express a preference. We will make the final decision though.

If your DS finds it hard to make friends, find out from the school if it offers additional transition support and maybe ask his preferred school what its policy is about separating/not children from the same primary school. It might also be worth asking him to calculate the bus fare over 5 years and working out what else it could fund to help him gain an understanding of why the bus fare issue is important.