Child protection is EVERYONES business

[Absofrigginlootly]

I see it on here all the time

"Mind your own business"
"It's nothing to do with you. Get a life"
"There's nothing you can do about it anyway"

Child protection is EVERYONE'S business.

Just read this story from the BBC and thought I would start a thread just to highlight the issue.

Maybe (hopefully?) it will make people stop and think before they turn the other way and mind their own business???

Child sexual exploitation: How the system failed
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-43400336

"I was also going to the doctor and the youth sexual health clinic a couple of times a week for three years and getting the morning-after pill."
"Nobody asked any questions."
"I had two abortions and again, no questions were asked as to what was going on in my life."

Heartbreaking. And a complete and utter failure of all these health care professionals

"It is never the responsibility of a child to keep themselves safe; the blame lies with the perpetrator."
"As adults, it's our responsibility to spot the signs and take action to safeguard children, not rely on children to tell us they are being abused."

As a child who was taken into care, I take a different view.

Reporting is better than saying nothing. It wasn’t until I wrote a full and frank letter to my teacher, was I listened to. But there were plenty of adults who saw that my mother was in deep trouble with her drinking and mental health and we children were left to rot.

I’ve been on the other side as a parent with calls due to “suspicious” injuries. I felt a bit embarrassed then got over myself as it was my dcs they are concerned about, not my pride.

Believe

Believeitornot - Are you advocating that people should report it if they think there is something wrong in a child's life?
Some people who are abusive can be quite vicious physically and emotionally to everyone. It can be dangerous to report such a person. I wonder if a reporting person would be protected by SS

You can report things anonymously

Absofrigginlootly - I suppose one could report anonymously but some info could be identifying i.e. In (shop name) child was slapped on the head. The hitter would know who was with them in that shop. Or SS may "accidentally" give out identifying info.

If there is an abusive person they could be abusing more than one person in their family or friends circle.

I think that some examples of abuse are obvious to everyone (like punching a child) and some times things happen which might cause us to raise an eyebrow, but most people wouldn't assume it was abuse or think to report it (like seeing a parent on the street telling a crying child to shut up). Either end of the spectrum is fairly easy for most people to identify. But there are lots of middle ground/ grey area events that genuinely confuse some people, often involving emotional abuse, and that's where I think you find the myob comments. However, the example I can think of most recently was a thread about seeing the neighbours 7 year old thrown out of the house after an argument and made to wait in the rain for 45 minutes before being let back in. On that thread almost everyone was saying "call the police" and "I can't believe you've just sat and watched that without acting". The op kept saying things like "but can the police do anything if you've not witnessed any actual abuse?" while people replied "you HAVE just witnessed actual abuse". To most people it was clearly abuse but to the op it wasn't clear, and the truth is that in real life I bet a lot of people would have told her to mind her business.

I read another post years ago on here where a poster saying that her upstairs neighbours child kept screaming and screaming all evening long, from about 7pm to the early morning. She described blood curdling screams and seemed really concerned and wondered if she should tell someone. Some people said "better to say something and be wrong than stay quiet and let harm come to the child" but most people said "toddlers are like that sometimes", "they probably just hate bath time and the tantrum goes on all evening" and "just sounds like sleep training that's getting out of hand". The majority of people seemed to think she should mind her business, but in her place I'd have probably called the NSPCC and asked for advice.

So I don't think abuse is always obvious, I think lots of people have very different thresholds for what they consider abuse, and I think that when physical abuse isn't present or isn't directly witnessed a lot of people are very hesitant to get involved.

Are you advocating that people should report it if they think there is something wrong in a child's life?

Not sure what you mean here. Yes if a child is potentially in danger. Because a child is at risk....

I think people are too slow to report concerns to Social Services if anything. But generally people seem unable to differentiate between proper abuse and good old fashioned discipline, at least when it's other parents dishing it out.

My view is, if you are concerned, intervene immediately. This gives the parent a chance to explain their position to you. If their answer isn't satisfactory, call the police or Social Services.

I think this is confusing two issues which deserve to be separate for a good reason.

A lot of people come on here about the slightest thing regarding small children. A missing shoe, slightly grubby clothes, a flustered parent snapping. And yes sometimes people get told to MYOB.

But when it comes to teenagers and CSE we know that people say nothing. We know that for decades young girls were regularly publicly picked up by much older men. Got drunk, took drugs and engaged in sexual activity with them in public places, told other children, told other parents, told teachers. Hardly any reports made and no action.

It just goes to show that when children are small people are overkeen to get involved at the slightest provocation. But let them grow up a little bit and nobody wants to get involved.

A caveat to that though, is that when the big CSE cases were actively going on reports, even from professionals like GPs, would be completely ignored. I knew one of the Rotherham victims well, and the hours my husband spent driving me around Bradford looking for her when she was missing aged 13/14/15 is unreal. Police did fuck all. I spent hours hanging on the phone trying to get some of the agencies to do something and being told to please fuck off.

It really wouldn’t have mattered how many people made it their business while it was going on. The people who mattered, the police, the council, SS - they didn’t care.

You only have to read MN to see that some people report to SS for ridiculous reasons. Most don't know how it works and think you can report someone when you don't know their name or address or anything about them. Some people wouldn't do anything no matter what, its not in their nature.
But I think most average people have an idea of what needs reporting should they have knowledge of it. The real problem is that generally people keep their secrets well and there is nothing outwardly for anyone to notice.

It would kill my mum if I told her the truth about my dad

Elton that's just awful

misssneaky I hope you have found some support and peace

Safeguarding of children is shocking.

Ds was subject to a huge cover up by government organisation that left him unable and without his legal rights - because he wasn't physically harmed. It was easier to cover up and deny and hide written documentation that it was to face up to the issues. Other adults working for the organisation were too scared to speak out and some even seemed to be totally brainwashed into thinking it was ok.
The same thing is still happening. There is input from higher up but it higher up. And it continues to happen over and over. No one seems to be able to stop it.

Vulnerable children who need protecting are relying on their parents to recognise what's happening and fight the organisation to get their children moved elsewhere.
It scares me to think of the long term effects of those who don't display outward signs or whose parents fall for the 'chat' others of is didn't.

And I will add police have been involved in my case with ds.
The result? Despite me having written evidence of event (from organisation - as they phoned to tell me) and despite a matching statement to that evidence from ds to police.
I actually have an email from police saying the organisation deny all knowledge and our chief of police allows them to deal with these situations themselves as they are bound by safeguarding procedures.
So they don't safeguard children but can get away with it because they have to safeguard children

It’s fairly obvious that yes all concerns about CSE should be reported but with the mind your own thing, a huge huge amount of the should I report threads I see are rammed full of malice wrapped up as concern or plain old fashioned superiority and so many of those are full of posters saying yes report with only a few saying MYO.

Personally I’ve had referrals passed to me describing houses that look like hoarders crack dens that are so gross no child should be allowed to reside in them, I’ve got there and it’s been a fairly together functioning normal household that’s not even vagely concerning regarding tidiness.
Or children so filthy it’s sob worthy yet what you find is kids bathed adiquate amounts wearing cheaper clothes than the concerned caller would like.
I’ve had FII claims made when the child has terminal cancer
Parents reported for appearing overly anxious when in hospital with a very sick child
A teenagers mother reported because her older teen was not wearing a coat in July
Parents reported for questioning professionals like HCP’s ( most notable the weight checks) or teachers.
Reported for declining fully optional services like HV’s
And I’ve sat in on loads of SEN meetings where parents have been threatened with referrals if they request support
Neighbours who report alleging serious domestic abuse where the reality is they asked them to stop blocking their drive

People can be very spiteful and often have little clue about whilst they are looking at someone else’s differing parenting style that someone else will be questioning theirs.

Oh and red flags is IMO one of the most damaging phrases that can be used in conversations about safeguarding by people if your going to label something specify what why and how don’t just use a nonsense dramatic phrase designed to raise concern but have no commitment behind it and what it actually is.

Fine, as long as everyone understands what child protection means.

It does not mean calling the police because a mum on the train was being mean to her child.

Ignore some of the words that make no sense I’m really poorly at the moment and have tremors so typing is not easy

I nearly posted this thread the other day too. I'm infuriated and saddened by the"mind your own business" posts and culture

Im a trauma therapist and so much of what my clients struggle with is why no one said anything, if the abuse was wrong why didn't an adult protect them. So many adults "minding their own business"

kidding, if you’re not happy with how the police have dealt with it make a complaint to the Independent Police Complaints Commission.

It does not mean calling the police because a mum on the train was being mean to her child.

Actually, it can sometimes mean exactly that.

I think you should mind your own business too.
If It was obvious like a starving or bruised child, parents leaving young children, alone and going out every evening ( although you don’t know if there is someone else there looking after them ) don’t interfere.

But surely that report you have linked refers to sexual exploitation of teenage girls?
We all know why that was ignored, because everyone is shit scared of being called racist so it is easier to call the girls prostitutes than tackle the problem.

I genuinely dont understand the "don't interfere" brigade. You could save a child a life time of mental trauma - why wouldn't you?

I'd love for some one to explain it to me

I genuinely dont understand the "don't interfere" brigade. You could save a child a life time of mental trauma - why wouldn't you?

Because people are saying Don't interfere when you shouldn't interfere, not when you should. What's not to understand?