Child protection is EVERYONES business

[Absofrigginlootly]

I see it on here all the time

"Mind your own business"
"It's nothing to do with you. Get a life"
"There's nothing you can do about it anyway"

Child protection is EVERYONE'S business.

Just read this story from the BBC and thought I would start a thread just to highlight the issue.

Maybe (hopefully?) it will make people stop and think before they turn the other way and mind their own business???

Child sexual exploitation: How the system failed
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-43400336

"I was also going to the doctor and the youth sexual health clinic a couple of times a week for three years and getting the morning-after pill."
"Nobody asked any questions."
"I had two abortions and again, no questions were asked as to what was going on in my life."

Heartbreaking. And a complete and utter failure of all these health care professionals

"It is never the responsibility of a child to keep themselves safe; the blame lies with the perpetrator."
"As adults, it's our responsibility to spot the signs and take action to safeguard children, not rely on children to tell us they are being abused."

Op, I haven’t read the whole thread but the woman in that thread bought alcohol (could be for someone else) and drank alcohol. How heavily was she drinking?

In a previous life I was s teacher and did report anything that was concerning to my safeguarding officer. To me, that’s a massive part of my job as a teacher - safeguarding my children. Even if nothing comes of one individual report, ideally all the reports should come together to paint a bigger picture if there is abuse happening.

On the other hand, I was reported to social services (a child in need referral) because I was open about my depression to my employer. One particular woman panicked because I was distressed and made the report, despite all the other professionals I was involved with never once being concerned for my child. It hung over my head for three months, obviously impacting on my mental health further, during which time social services never visited/called me until they closed the case because it was bollocks. I quit my job in the end because I couldn’t bear to work for a county that discriminated against mental illness in that way.

There does need to be common sense applied.

nicknaky I don't think it was ever fully clarified... the OP said she knew the woman was drinking heavily.

My responses were all based on people saying "there's nothing you can do" and "mind your own business".

I said to the OP that if you have genuine concerns then there is something you can do and it is your business.... and laid out the responsibilities of HCPs in this situation to safeguard an unborn baby - as many posters were doubting that this was a real thing

I’m totally confused as to what your op is about. You are talking about serious issues that hcp should rightly be dealing with but saying that mumsnetters say “mind your own” when that isn’t the case at all.

i'm confused as well

you've linked to a report yet not referred to it once, and are now going on about alcohol during pregnancy

What concerns me is not so much the myob brigade (although I agree they can get it badly wrong) but the 'It's only a snapshot' argument. I've seen that one trotted out in response to many deeply concerning scenarios, including a small child being subjected to a prolonged barrage of very nasty verbal abuse in public. Oh, and 'Why didn't you ask [abusive dickhead] if there was anything you could do to help?'

I'm "going on about alcohol in pregnancy" because a couple of posters have asked me about that thread I thought????
It only came up because pp asked for examples of threads where posters had said "mind your own business" about serious issues....

The policing of the behaviour of women in pregnancy is a contentious issue because he foetus isn’t legally a person until it is born. Obviously it would be better if pregnant women made sensible health choices but their body is theirs to do with as they wish. Health professionals advising is great, but ultimately that’s all it is.

" if we reported every little thing then valuable time could be wasted"

It isn't. There are duty SW's that are available for reports that come in, via Careline. The SW's who then take over to form a CIN plan (which is usually passed to Family Support) are a different team. The SW's who handle CP plans, are a different team. As a child passes through the system, different SW's will be assigned.

You do not take resources off a child by reporting something.

It was very frustrating to be told incidents, some of fighting whilst carrying the child etc, which were not reported at the time, they don't stand up in Court. Equally it was infuriating when once again the Police haven't followed procedure and an incident didn't come straight to us. Neighbors didn't report it because the Police was in attendance.

Reports can build a picture. There may be suspected Neglect/Abuse and the reports, which don't seem like much, can be the one that prompts intervention.

If in doubt, report. Especially over Summer, because the child death/Injury etc rate goes up during the School holidays.

Health professionals advising is great, but ultimately that’s all it is.

Unborn babies can be the subject of child protection orders if needs be so it can go further than simply "advice"

E.g. Unborn babies of herioin adicts who have child protection plans in place to legally remove the baby at birth

I agree. As an enlighten society that no longer views children as their parebts’ Property we have a moral obligation to protect them arising from their vulnerablity. If you see something then you say something. Anything less is callous.

A Woman who was heavily drinking during pregnancy would probably be seen as vulnerable in her own right, as are drug users. The Safeguarding is directed at her, because she is exposing herself to harm. A report would be done separately for the Baby, after so many weeks gestation.

I think that it has gone as far as it needs to.

Birdsgottafly - the study discussed below suggests that time IS being wasted.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/education-36377293

I do agree but I also do think it depends on the situation, if we reported every little thing then valuable time could be wasted, I think you have to be really sure and have good reason to report things.

I agree with this. A bit of common sense does not go amiss. Like, hearing a parent swear at a child once, just ignore. Seeing someone punch a child, obviously report!

Sometimes it does seem that people are willing to report every tiny little thing, and I guess I understand it in a way. But endless reports just take up time and money, and there is not an infinite amount of either, so common sense really needs to be applied.

I agree that we all have a duty to protect children and that should take priority over saving the feelings of parents.

Of course it must be horrible to be suspected of abusing your child, but child abuse is happening all around every one of us and if we suspect it, we should report it. To who? School, CS, Police as appropriate. Yes there will be time wasted, but professionals would all tell you that they'd rather follow something up and be satisfied all is well than have something dreadful happen and dozens of people come out of the woodwork with "well i didn't think it was any of my business at the time...."

Jacksgirl123 That's one report and one way of looking at the system. Others would disagree with the findings and conclusions.

I agree with some incidents are not a cause for concern. I only joined MN, after having to use it for research because of the incorrect advice about SS and what should be reported.

When I joined here, there were shocking incidents of child neglect/abuse that poster were being told to myob, about.

Also phoning Careline, is different than being able to approach the School, HV etc. If there is a professional person that you can be sure will be able to judge the situation, then there is no harm done by doing that.

What are you referring to OP?

It sounds like Rochdale girls.
Which was a disgrace on so many levels.

I completely agree with NickNack, I haven't seen a thread where a serious issue, but told to mind their own business.

But I do see all the time: like there is one now, one swear word /let go of my hand.

And then assumption and presumption, huge jumps, straight to: that this needs reporting, because it's abuse. It could be. But it just as easily could not be.

So In certain situations yes these people really do need to be told to mind their own business.

Jacksgirl123, also, if he conducted research into how many newborn babies were taken to hospital, but didn't need treatment, the conclusion would be the same. But we'd never tell a parent with a Newborn not to seek medical treatment, even though time is being wasted by an 'unnecessary' hospital visit.

"If you SUSPECT abuse you must report, "

Well. Some people's 'radar' on whether they see something as abusive/ suspect abuse, could be way off kilter.

Some people over-react and see abuse everywhere/all over the place / in areas that others might just consider it to be 'not ideal parenting'.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2016/apr/15/rise-in-referrals-social-services-trauma-families-child-protection

Here's another study. I of course think that allegations of abuse need to be investigated but people don't know what would meet threshold and what wouldn't and/or what actually constitutes abuse or neglect.

It's a similar difficulty to what's appropriate for A and E or not. And of course we always think better to be safe than sorry but that's why we have up to 40% of attendances being inappropriate which of course takes resources from elsewhere.

Well I just received a call from my daughter's school. Her teacher was concerned as she had mentioned watching a film with Daddy that had scary clowns in it which she didn't like.Teacher said clearly it was an 18. I was completely baffled as the only film they watched together recently was HP & the Prisoner of Azkaban. I asked DP and he said there was a clown but in it and he turned it off as soon as she said she was scared (she is 9 and it was her choice to watch it). We are both horrified that the school would think anything sinister was happening and although I fully understand and respect safeguarding, it is pretty horrible when it happens to you. And now I have to wait for her teacher to call me back before I can explain. I actually feel tarnished.

oblomov see the port directly above yours. Just because you haven't seen such a thread doesn't mean others havnt - unless you've read every single thread ever posted on MN??

Im a sw but not in families and not in the Uk. The law here states that everyone has a duty to report to the council if they know a child is being neglected or abused. So if you hear your neighbour screaming regularly at their child then you have first hand knowledge. If in your job you come into contact with children then you have enhanced duty. If you suspect abuse or neglect then you are obliged to report it. Also if you think a child needs extra support eg our child has ASD so the psychologist informed our council that ds would need extra support.

*post not port

So if as mentioned above you were a dr giving a teen girl the map everyweek you would be obliged to report it.