in my reaction to DD's rudeness

[DiscontinuedModelHusband]

apologies for length...

over the last few weeks (months), DD has become ever more rude and disrespectful. of me, DW, and my PIL (who support us a great deal with after-school lifts etc).

she has no tolerance for anyone or anything that doesn't fit what she wants, and makes it very obvious how she feels.

she's often awful to DS1 (she's the oldest, he's the middle one), and seems to make it her life's obsession to ensure that everyone is aware of every little fault/mistake he makes.

she's 14, and is under pressure at school, as has historically been a very high performer (though most of this pressure she puts on herself)

she is spoilt (obviously not her fault), and very entitled as a result.

we've tried talking to her, but we just get further rudeness, and are told "well then people shouldn't annoy me", and things like that.

last night, we went to the shop to get some stuff for her and DS1's lunch today. in the car she was picking her nose, so i called her out on it (as she frequently does when her brother does it). she got all arsey, and as we were walking into the shop, she loudly told me to shut up.

i don't really care what other people think, but this was my tipping point. i told her i was buying lunch for DS1, and that she could sort her own out (we had plenty of stuff at home, we just went out for treats, as it's a weird schoolday today).

i said i'd had enough of her behaving like a twat, and that i wasn't going to put myself out for her anymore, until she started to show a little more respect, and stopped taking everyone for granted.

later in the evening, i'd decided i wasn't going to drop her at her friends on the way to work/school, so i told her this (we live

Mark Twain:

"When I was a boy of 14, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be 21, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years."

This was me with bells on. God I was hideous to my poor dad at this age. It’s a stage of permanent embarrassment, self loathing and self consciousness. I’m not excusing her rudeness but try to avoid any possible was of embarrassing her ( this may include breathing the wrong way) and reinforce rules in a way which are clear but non belittling.

It passes. You can be friends again. Getting into entrenched conflict just makes things much worse. Be the adult.

For that reason perhaps you could back off a bit and get her mother to step up and parent her DD appropriately.
You are the role model for any future partner she may have. If you bully her she may think that’s how male/female relationships are meant to be

I'm sorry but that^ is just batshit crazy. Bullying? FFS. Why on earth should a father have no say in how his rude, entitled daughter is behaving? And why on earth has it all to fall to the mother? The DD needs to know and see that BOTH parents are on the same page.

tkband3

Family dinners can descend from pleasant and funny discussions into arguments followed by 'it's not fair' and door slamming.

I suspect this is because your eldest dd doesn't find it funny.

Is it done at her expense?

Normal teenage behaviour imo. Teenage girls go through a phase where they're like crazy women with constant PMT, all awash with hormones and rebellion. Their brains go through an odd developmental phase too, where the bit that governs self-control (frontal cortex?) has not kept up with the development of the impulse and aggression bit (amygdala?). It will pass, like any violent storm does.

I think the harder you try and put them back in their box, the worse they get. They get double angry at being thwarted and brook no opposition. I also agree with not sweating the small stuff, keep your powder dry for the things that really matter, like drinking, drugs and unsuitable boyfriends. Like a willful puppies they respond better to kindness and rewards than to being shouted at and punished.

In 18 months or so, you'll find this wild creature has grown into a strong and charming young woman, and you'll forgive her for all the times she has sworn at you, slammed doors and screamed that she hates you and you've ruined her life.

Take a deep breath, and hold it till then!

I don't think you were too harsh.
But, how to move forward?

I would sit down with DW and decide a plan. For me, it would be arranging a talk between the 3 of you. Explain what you have been trying to do, why you're doing it and that it doesn't appear to be working.

Listen to her response (if she chooses to engage).

Then, I would explain what the next step is - and what is that? From my perspective it would be saying she has to earn her place in the family by being part of it. If she has pocket money you can withdraw it, or parts of it, for certain infractions such as being rude. Give her chores to do that mean she has to engage with others (if only initially to seek information) - washing/drying up, washing the car, helping cook, sorting laundry.

Then I would give her one last chance to give the previous method a chance. Say 1-2 weeks?

You'll have to discuss how her behaviour is measurable to know if it's a success. End of the day report? Making a note of when she's done something right (post-it note or some such)?

How would you feel about including her brother in the initial discussion to give him a platform to express how her behaviour makes him feel? Or, you talk to him and pass it on.

It's tough and there's no quick fix solution, unfortunately! But trying to keep the lines of communication open are the best option.

Hi OP. I have your t-shirt. We didn't have sibling bullying, DD being an only, but we had everything else. DW tried being good cop, and was treated with contempt that drove her nearly mad. I tried bad cop, and when that didn't work tried a completely flat affect. If she told me to shut up, I would not to talk to her until she apologized. It took less than three days to get the interval from the insult to the apology down to 30 minutes. There's also "that's nice dear" as a response to random ranting. You may need to get her counselling. This worked because DD was brighter than the counsellor and fixed herself rather than spend any more time with someone who bored the arse off her. A little cruel wit helps.

At 22 she thinks I'm brilliant, that DW's lovely, and we think the same of her. Mind you, she's adamant that DGS "isn't going to grow up to be the kind of little shit I was". How I laughed

GetoutofthatGarden please calm down.* I was suggesting that women generally have a better understanding of how other females think and act. Mothers have been through female teenage angst and emotions. Fathers haven’t.*

Apologies for the bold!

Best advice I was given as a Manager,may apply to managing children:Show your anger, but not when you are feeling angry, the emotion makes one less credible.
It's very powerful to be objective about why one is disgusted to the point of anger by someone's behaviour, but the credible way to convey it is dispassionately.The behaviour needs to be what is disgusting, not the person,so you were spot on in saying you were fed up with her behaving like a twat,you didn't label her a twat.
You could explain later that if one behaves like a twat,people will react to you as if you are a twat.....

i fully understand about the hormones, and that she's going through major changes physically and emotionally.

she had a fairly high level dance exam yesterday as well, so was concerned about that too i expect.

our house is always noisy and argumentative, because within it are 5 stubborn and strong-minded people. but such noise is usually very quick to dissipate, and we are always careful to apologise when we overstep the mark. DSs both tend to acknowledge (eventually) when they're out of line, and we always talk calmly to them afterwards, with hugs, and they are always told that they are loved no matter what. that it's the behaviour we are calling out, not the person.

DD has the same, but obviously she has become much less willing to own her mistakes. i know this is normal. she is regularly told she is valued, and she knows how proud we are of her.

she's very highly thought of by her teachers and her parent's friends, and outside our immediate family she is lovely!

i will look at the "Get Out Of My Life" book - every little helps, right?

i definitely won't overuse responses like mine on monday - this is something I'm already aware of!

Just to add, I found out this morning that DW took her to her friend's on the way to school yesterday, so perhaps we do have some work to do to ensure a united front!

BoneyBackJefferson

Not at all - it is generally as a result of her making what she thinks is a funny comment about DT2, which is actually quite unkind, and us picking her up on it. She is well able to laugh at herself (as are we all), but hasn't yet quite learnt that her acerbic wit isn't always appropriate and can be downright mean sometimes.

tkband3

Thank you for explaining.