in my reaction to DD's rudeness

[DiscontinuedModelHusband]

apologies for length...

over the last few weeks (months), DD has become ever more rude and disrespectful. of me, DW, and my PIL (who support us a great deal with after-school lifts etc).

she has no tolerance for anyone or anything that doesn't fit what she wants, and makes it very obvious how she feels.

she's often awful to DS1 (she's the oldest, he's the middle one), and seems to make it her life's obsession to ensure that everyone is aware of every little fault/mistake he makes.

she's 14, and is under pressure at school, as has historically been a very high performer (though most of this pressure she puts on herself)

she is spoilt (obviously not her fault), and very entitled as a result.

we've tried talking to her, but we just get further rudeness, and are told "well then people shouldn't annoy me", and things like that.

last night, we went to the shop to get some stuff for her and DS1's lunch today. in the car she was picking her nose, so i called her out on it (as she frequently does when her brother does it). she got all arsey, and as we were walking into the shop, she loudly told me to shut up.

i don't really care what other people think, but this was my tipping point. i told her i was buying lunch for DS1, and that she could sort her own out (we had plenty of stuff at home, we just went out for treats, as it's a weird schoolday today).

i said i'd had enough of her behaving like a twat, and that i wasn't going to put myself out for her anymore, until she started to show a little more respect, and stopped taking everyone for granted.

later in the evening, i'd decided i wasn't going to drop her at her friends on the way to work/school, so i told her this (we live

[MsHarry]

It's not acceptable;e to call a teen a twat or anyone for that matter but we all swear at times don't we? As for it being a gendered slur? Really, had no idea.To me twat means idiot.

[Branleuse]

i dont think youve been too harsh at all. Ive told my kids when theyve acted like dicks.

I dont see twat as a terrible word. I guess other people are much more affected by language though. Its hardly like you dropped the C bomb on her, and she was quite clearly acting like a twat.

[ivenoideawhatimdoing]

OP, good on you!

The world doesn’t revolve around her and from what you’ve said you’ve tried everything else. You and your wife NEED to offer a united front.

I give her until the weekend before her attitude does a complete 180 and she realises she needs to actually show people some common courtesy. Otherwise, she’ll reach adulthood with a nasty shock. Tough love is sometimes the way.

In regard to her brother please please please keep defending him. My Mother let my sister get away with murder and although we are close now, she treated me like shit growing up and my mental health was none existent until my early 20’s as a result.

You’re doing fine, this horrible phase will pass! Best of luck x

[InspMorse]

YANBU. She is out of order and she needs to be called out on it - which you have done.

Loss of Wifi, no lifts, no treats are good 'sanctions' when teens are behaving like entitled brats.

I don't believe in good cop/bad cop approach. It gives them room to manipulate the situation with one parent in their favour. Instead, a balanced, firm approach from both parents is preferable IMO.

Working out what's behind the behaviour is a minefield. The behaviour they present (rudeness, defiance) can occur if something is bothering them yet they go crazy over something entirely unrelated. Teens can find it hard to regulate their emotions!

I would suggest that you both take a hard line when outbursts happen especially if she tells you to shut up or bullies her brother. However, you have to lead by example! You can't call her a twat in retaliation! Be like a broken record - 'You're not speaking to me/behaving like that, if you continue XYZ will happen (insert 'sanction').
This tough love coupled with really loving behaviour from both you & your DW (& treats!) when she's being nice show her that it isn't worth being a so rude.

Good luck OP!

Oh, one final thing... MN jury will probably shoot me down but my DD (same age as yours) has horrendous mood swings at certain times in the month. She is all over the place - stroppy, moody and angry. When called on her crappy attitude she will often end up wailing 'I don't know whhhyyy I feel like this!' Through floods of tears. I'm not saying this is the only reason for rubbish behaviour but it happens!

[ivenoideawhatimdoing]

You also didnt call her a Twat.
You said she was behaving ‘like a twat’
There’s a difference.
I’d support your wife saying she was behaving lik a Twat.
I’ve said to my husband he is behaving like a Twat.
He’s said to me I am behaving like a Twat.
If you shouted to your teenage daughter ‘you are a twat’ then I’d have an issue with it.
If saying she’s acting like a Twat once in fifteen years is the way to make her see she is indeed acting like a Twat. Do it.

[UrgentExitRequired]

I would say calling her a twat wasn't nice, but it sounds like she needs to understand once and for all that this behaviour isn't on! In terms of everything else, i don't think you were too harsh at all.

[Thehogfather]

I don't particularly object to the word 'twat' either. More the loss of control that prompted it. It's a bit like telling a teen 'to stop fucking swearing'. You aren't exactly demonstrating the control you expect.

chelle yy, mentally destroy her and damage her self esteem entirely. Some parental bullying will soon knock the attitude out of her. Fantastic parenting.

It is such bad advice it would be funny if it wasn't for the fact you're suggesting emotional abuse.

[Reallycantbebothered]

Even when my dd was behaving like a twat, I never actually called her one although believe me I wanted to....although I did call her a lying bitch when she'd lied about being at a friend's house ,when she'd been at a party in another town
God I don't miss the ages between 13 and 17..... hormones/boys/ friends/ exams/parties/clothes
All I can say is keep lines of communication open and choose your battles wisely so that she knows you'll always be there to listen when things go tits up which they will undoubtedly at some point
My dd is now 21 and is lovely again and we have some great conversations when she's home from uni

[echidna1]

My DD is 14 too. She started with 'The Attitude' when she was 13.

What helped me was completely withdrawing from all the 'twattish' behaviour.....

I just said one day when all was calm and lovely:

"I will always be your mother and I will always love you. Sometimes I may not like you when you behave badly. Sometimes you will hate me too. You know where I am if you ever need me, and you know who you can talk to if you can't talk to me"

Then withdraw.....if she wants to remain holed up in her room when it's a beautiful day outside then so be it. It really isn't worth cajoling, arguing, bribing, nagging......you're the one who will end up certified! If ever she behaves badly, she knows there will be consequences - and because I don't say anything unless I really have to, then she really listens!!

As someone said upthread, it really isn't worth sweating the small stuff. Let it go. They have so much going on in their heads and bodies that they move swiftly on from each blow-up whilst we are left licking our wounds.

I didn't find any of this easy. I'm an older (single) mum from the days when you respected your parents and their word was law. I always did as I was asked.
My observation has been that many parents are becoming scared of their kids and are scared to say No and mean No.
Then it all turns to crap when they need boundaries (as they become bratty teenagers) which we are unable to/unwilling to provide......

My daughter actually came up to me after 4 days of this new attitude from me and asked if I was ok.......

It will pass.......we just have to be super patient and if goaded then walk away from it. I turn it into a game if it gets really hard, or I take myself out and away from the situation until things have calmed down.

[callmekitten]

she's 14, and is under pressure at school, as has historically been a very high performer (though most of this pressure she puts on herself)

This part of your post really spoke to me. My DD is also 14, a high performer and puts a lot of pressure on herself. She is very intolerant of others as well. It has recently come to our attention that DD suffers from anxiety and has experienced several panic attacks at school. Through her counseling, I have come to understand that, as intolerant of others as she is, she is 10 x harder on herself. Much of our focus with her has changed to learning to accept "less than perfect" in both herself and others. Punishing her only makes her feel worse about herself.

Is it possible that there is something similar going on with your child?

[Jux]

I think your twat comment was perfectly fine in the circumstances. I remember being a vvv difficult 14 yo, and mum calling me out on a number of occasions, when I'd pushed her to the end of her tether or been horribly rude.

Yes, she was a 'horrible woman' at the time, but by the time I was 18 I decided I was pretty lucky with my parents, and she'd been justified.

[Mumminmum]

Whenn my kids were younger we would take their toys if they misbehaved. Worked very well with DS, but with DD it wasn't untill her room was rather empty that it helped. My DS did have a couple of weeks last year, where he was very sarcastic, deliberately misunderstanding what I said and very slow to get off his butt, when we asked him to do something. I said to him I had lived together with difficult people for 21 years (my dad and brother) and I wasn't going to live with difficult people again, so if he was going to be difficult to live with then I was going to be really difficult to live with. That helped. Probably, because he knows I don't issue empty threats.

[billybagpuss]

No you have not been too harsh, I really don't understand why people are getting all upset that you said she was behaving like a twat, she was and needs it pointing out in language that she understands.

One pp mentioned it could be time of the month related which could be true, but it sounds like its ongoing.

I think you've probably made your point for now, the only other thing I'd do is make sure you and DW are presenting a united front and definitely ignore it when she tries to drop DS in trouble.

The Easter holidays are only a couple of weeks a way make sure she gets plenty of rest and try and tackle her behaviour together over it.

[Troels]

Whatever you do don't back down OP.
It may well be normal teen trying it on stuff, but that doesn't mean you have to put up with it. The Twat bit I imagine popped out in anger. It would for me if I didn't bite my tongue.
I refuse to entertain obnoxious behaviour from my kids. Two are now grown and moved out and are lovely now Dd trys it on and I do remind her she's not our firstborn, been there done that, now behave or suffer the consequenses.
What we do is follow through on any punishments, so never threaten anything you won't do. Do say I'll kill you as I doubt you would. But losing internet works, and back chat is met with "do you want to lose it for xx extra then?" keep it calm and controlled and lower your voice it puts the bejesus up them. I used to whisper to my boys in line in the grocery shops and they would stop being idiots almost immediatly. Joking about is fine, being a little ass isn't.

[Troels]

Don't say I'll kill you obviously

[Serialweightwatcher]

I didn't swear for years infront of the kids but since hitting teenage it has been known to slip out a couple of times - it's so hard when they get like this - presumably she will likely grow out of it but she does need to see that you shouldn't be spoken to by her as you are, and if she wants respect, she needs to give it too. My younger DS is 14 and I have similar problems - it's not easy but I don't think I was either. Stick with it and don't beat yourself up - we're only human

[GetoutofthatGarden]

Of course your reaction was disgusting and would you be happy with one of her boyfriends in the future calling her that? Do you call your wife that?

Ah now come on, that's ridiculous, such oan over-reaction.

OP I think you were right - she needs to learn that she's no better than anyone else, which she seems to think she is by treating you all like shit on her shoe. It needs stopped.

[Bluntness100]

Oh for goodness sake, so many snowflakes, mine went through this stage at this age, I did the same thing a couple of times. Said game over I'm doing nothing more for you because you're so bloody rude. I always got an apology in the end.

Stick to your guns. The other method I found work is expressing your disappointment in who they have become. Mine didn't like that.

However yes it's a stage, but unless you call them out on it and put a stop to it they turn into adults who behave like this and sadly we've all met them. Rude, entitled, judgemental people. So yes, step in and teach her it can't go on and won't be tolerated.

[isthismummy]

If I'd told my mum to shut up as a teen it would have been the last thing I ever said.

Yes your teenage years are awful, yet I still managed to keep respect for my parents. You aren't strict enough with her imo. No child should ever be allowed to get away with telling her parents to shut up!

[Kitchenbound]

How you parent your kids is a personal choice. Some think calling her a twat was well out of line some think its justified and frankly you could have said worse.

There is no 'right way' to parent really. Do whatever you think is right and whatever works for yourself and your DW. Sometimes we may need to lose it at our kids a bit to convey just how over the behaviour we are. Does not make you a bad parent! That makes you a parent trying to do your best. You're not being unreasonable - hopefully she snaps out of it soon! Hang in there the horrible phase will pass just like the terrible 2s!

[orangesticker]

If "Shut up!" is the worst thing she ever says to you, I'd think you had done a mighty fine job!

[Bekabeech]

Keep picking her up on every fault, every time she makes a mistake point it out. Don't let any rudeness/obnoxiousness slide. Even if she is not doing something wrong as such, just not doing it perfectly, point it out to her and those around her.

If she has friends over, it won't do any harm to continue this "nitpicking" - in fact it will cause her more humiliation.

She sounds like a nasty piece of work - you need to smash it out of her now, because it will damage her life if she carries her behaviour into adulthood.

This is the worst piece of advice I have ever read on MN - maybe the person who wrote it should think about how they would feel/react if someone treated them like that. Personally I'd be on my way to a mental breakdown, and if my DH treated me like that everyone would be telling me to LTB.

[orangesticker]

It's worth noting that despite all the bravado and back chat, teens are very vulnerable and insecure, they need our love and support and they need to know we are there for them. Poor behaviour from the teens coupled with an over reaction from the parent can be the tipping point of the downwards spiral in your relationship, it's easier to ignore a parent who behaves badly too.

If you can get through the teens and still be on good speaking terms with your child, you're doing alright.

[Jux]

Couldn't agree more, Beka. OP, that honestly would have made me utterly despise my parent, and tune them out completely, not to mention the toll it could take on MH and self-confidence. I would have lost any belief that I deserved anything good, or that I deserved to be loved. That would have led to very risky behaviour. I do honestly think that you would do this only if you really disliked your child and wanted her to self-destruct quickly.

[llangennith]

Been through the teenage years with my 3 adult DC and now have a teenage DGD. It’s a volatile and hormonal age and girls especially are very emotional. For that reason perhaps you could back off a bit and get her mother to step up and parent her DD appropriately.
You are the role model for any future partner she may have. If you bully her she may think that’s how male/female relationships are meant to be.