Jack the Ripper

[Eltonjohnssyrup]

Not really an AIBU, just posted here for traffic.

What do you think about the investigation searching for Jack the Ripper? Do you think they could have identified him by now using DNA if they wanted to? I do.

I think it would make a huge statement about the importance of women and how much it had increased between the late 1800s and now if we managed to finally identify the killer.

So why do you think some of the files are still shut on this case, ShatnersWig? And why did Scotland yard fight to keep them secret? This is not "entirely normal practice".

I think it would make a huge statement about the importance of women and how much it had increased between the late 1800s and now if we managed to finally identify the killer

How so?

Fairies, I'm guessing these files are hiding something like bad police practices, police anti semitism etc.
There was a rumour that the police dressed up some of their officers in dresses (but didn't shave) and paraded the east end as bait to catch JTR.
Scotland Yard is very territorial about its reputation.

"JTR has long been considered the first serial killer." No he hasn't, serial killers have been around for centuries!

Sexually motivated serial killers do predate jtr but it was rarely if ever made known that was the motivation.

"I always thought that there must have been a lot of serial killers let loose during the war" yes, well murder generally, I suspect a fair few family members were bumped off did to being hated or to make money from their deaths.

There is still information being withheld and certain types of middle or upper class men that wouldn't have seemed strange to be wandering about the east end, plus then as now there are wealthy men who fetishise the idea of "having a bit of rough" as it were.

I know someone in the Met and he told me that they have a museum, and that they know who Jack the Ripper was, with the proof held by the museum vault.

Could be total bullshit of course but he seemed serious.

Did anyone ever read the book by Patricia Cornwell about JTR, where she claimed that Walter Sickert, an English Impressionist artist, was the killer? It was unbelievably bad:

I couldn't even finish it. I was glad I got it for free on my Kindle.

I wouldn't be surprised if they knew who it was, but weren't able to prove it. Or, as some of the theories go, it was a nobleman and they weren't able to actually charge him.

Graphista sorry I'm not explaining myself properly.
The media portrayed him as the first. I'm not saying I believe it.
However I can't think of a similar sex motivated killer in the uk that pre dates him.
Although I've read of plenty of one-off sex killings.

Using DNA testing - if it were even possible after this time, to try to identify a killer from a previous century wouldn't make a huge statement about the importance of women in today's society. It would just waste time and resources better used on a current investigation.

What a very odd idea.

revealing his being an upper class, possibly even well known man would have caused near revolution.

Do you mean the stories about the Duke of Clarence who, if he hadn't died young, would've eventually become king?

Not sure how DNA testing would help now. DNA doesn't come with a name and address coded in!
I don't think any police time or resources should be spent on this, but if there was any further previously uninvestigated evidence, then it would be so interesting for a documentary team/ investigative journalist etc. to investigate. Would be fascinating to resolve this.

If the identity of the killer is known, as some believe, I can't fathom why his identity would still be kept secret, even if he was a prince. He'll be long long dead.

I know someone in the police (really senior) and they say they know exactly who it was and when the man was committed to an asylum the murders stopped. Can’t remember the name.

Ah someone up above me mentioned it too,the person I know was in the Met too and said it was in a museum

One book, which was very good, I can't remember the title grrrrr, suggested that a case review using modern methods eg profiling, geographical research etc could come up with a more likely set of suspects.
I thought that was a very interesting idea, from memory the author suggests the perpetrator should have already been on the polices radar, from much lesser crimes. In that period very little was known about the methods police commonly use nowadays to narrow down suspects.

Did anybody go to the Crime Museum exhibition a couple of years back at the Museum of London?

Queen The problem with Hutchinson is two fold. Firstly, Abberline went on record to say he believed Hutchinson to be truthful. Secondly, serial killers only stop due to one of three things - physical incapability, incarceration or death. While we don't know a lot about Hutchinson, we know he lived on into the 20th century, well after any possible similar killings had ceased (serial killers almost never change their modus operandi), and would therefore had stopped killing for something other than the three accepted norms.

Fairies What Trevor Marriott wanted released (he's an ex policeman with his own theories which most Ripperologists have declared to be rubbish) were not Ripper-specific files but ledgers detailing many other crimes dating into the 20th century. So, if the police do want to hide something, it may well have something totally disconnected to the Ripper. The argument proposed by the police in the court case - which was backed by the judges - were that the ledgers name police informants up until 1912 and while they are all dead, and probably their families, they are concerned about the message it sends out to current informants and future informants (ie, police say they can keep names confidential but in 20 years along comes the next Trevor Marriott wanting to solve something else, court says OK then, and an informants name comes out and they and their families are put in danger). That's what the argued anyway.

Amazing how many former policemen say "ah, we know who did it, the secret is in the museum". You really telling me that not one of them in all these years wouldn't reveal all? You realise how much money they could make by doing so? There is everything to gain by revealing the truth, if it exists, financially.

Almost ALL theories can be debunked. The Duke of Clarence one for instance. Proved AT THE TIME he couldn't have committed some of the murders because he was in Scotland in front of dozens and dozens of witnesses.

Can anyone come up with one sensible reason why, after 130 years, the truth that - if it was true - one of the killers was a nobleman would cause any problems for anyone in 2018 and would still require covering up? I've yet to read one.

Not JTR related but there is a three parter about Ruth Ellis starting on BBC Four tonight for anyone who may be interested.

I think it would make a huge statement about the importance of women and how much it had increased between the late 1800s and now if we managed to finally identify the killer

Unless Jack the Ripper turns out to have been a woman.

If there had been DNA testing at the time he/she would have been caught. However there is too great a risk of contamination for it to be conclusive now.

Personally I think the money would be better spent catching criminals who are still alive. That would make a bigger statement than proving who "Jack" the Ripper was.

Queen - I'd love to know how he intended to get the blood out of his Astrakahn cuffs!

Queen The problem with Hutchinson is two fold. Firstly, Abberline went on record to say he believed Hutchinson to be truthful. Secondly, serial killers only stop due to one of three things - physical incapability, incarceration or death. While we don't know a lot about Hutchinson, we know he lived on into the 20th century, well after any possible similar killings had ceased (serial killers almost never change their modus operandi), and would therefore had stopped killing for something other than the three accepted norms.

Abberline believed him but police questioned the Yorkshire Ripper several times and believed him before he finally slipped up and was arrested.
Serial killers do suddenly stop - Fred and Rose, the BTK killer -- both had not killed in several years before their arrests.
And who's to say Hutchinson did'nt continue killing but was lucky enough not to get caught?
I think his statement is suspect - too much detail in the physical description - a huge sign of lying. Astrakan sleeves indeed.

Will be watching Ruth Ellis tonight.

Queenof - often before jtr motivations if not financial or "rage" or "insanity" there would be no disclosure of indications even in official reports of sexual motivation. They would merely be classed as kind of motivation Unknown.

With jtr the bodies were usually left in relatively public places and the wounds clearly displayed a sexual element to the crimes.

"Do you mean the stories about the Duke of Clarence who, if he hadn't died young, would've eventually become king?" No I believe he had an alibi for at least one of them.

There were other key figures that were suspected (including a high ranking policeman) who would not only have been believed to have been protected "by the nobs" due to their position in society/political reasons but also because of their direct involvement in the case. I read a LOT about it years ago don't remember exact details.

I don't believe there's proof either BTK or Fred and Rose "just stopped" there are millions of people go missing and likely murdered and their bodies never found. Even in known murder cases the bodies aren't always found even with lots of research and manpower - eg moors murders victims remain missing.

But I agree a copper just saying "I believe him" is hardly irrefutable evidence of innocence! I think similar happened with Bundy too

I thought it was more or less agreed that it was Kosminski?

One of my great grandfathers was a copper in Whitechapel from the 1870s on - so may well have worked on the cases. Or been one of the blokes in drag trying to trap him

And wasn't there also thought to be some overlap with Springheeled Jack?

Graphista you're right there is no proof Fred and BTK did stop. Which backs up my view that Hutchinson did not stop, if indeed he was the killer.
There are countless killings like these around the world where the killer hasn't been caught. We will never know if these killers stopped because of infirmity, death, incarcaration or simply got fed up of killing.

Smeaton I agree about Cross. I saw the documentary and it was very convincing.