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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To feel totally repulsed and horrified by this news item about my son's martial art club

138 replies

userabc12345678 · 12/03/2018 21:24

thechronicleherald.ca/novascotia/1551975-taekwondo-coach-suspended-for-disciplining-teen-n.s.-governing-body-conducting-an

I just randomly came across this news article about my son's martial arts instructor, and I feel really sick. I'm considering withdrawing him but feel that's not a rational response. Fees are also paid for the next three months. Son has been going to this club for several years, never any incidents - the instructor/owner always seems like a perfectly nice polite guy, never saw him yell or anything at students (unlike some other instructors there). What are your reactions? Thanks.

OP posts:
Terftastic · 12/03/2018 22:52

The corporal punishment itself doesn't seem to have been denied - what makes you think it didn't happen Elton?

Hotdoggity · 12/03/2018 22:52

Actually, full disclosure - I’m being a bit dickish and I haven’t looked into this properly.

Ruffian · 12/03/2018 22:59

Police did not 'dismiss the entire allegation' -
officers determined that an instructor had struck a 17-year-old youth, who was a student at Woo Yong’s Taekwondo Academy, with a cane stick as a form of discipline

They decided not to bring charges as he hadn't suffered physical injury.

LittlePaintBox · 12/03/2018 23:05

No son of mine would go anywhere near it once I knew that. It sounds cultish.

MayCatt · 12/03/2018 23:16

This made me feel sick the more I read.

I wouldn't leave my DC there OP. Just awful.

NorthEndGal · 13/03/2018 01:28

As a fellow parent from Nova Scotia, who's ds attends the Hapkido lessons at the same location, it's really not that odd!
This story is important because Master Young has a huge influnce over these kids, and most parents listen to him as well.
I don't think he should have used caning, but I do think the 17 year old should have had a form of non corporeal punishment for being disrespectful.
If you don't want to carry in with TKD, check out the hapkido! Master Mike is amazing, and no one is being hit as a punishment

sadiekate · 13/03/2018 01:37

I could not read past the first few paragraphs. The thought of anyone inflicting physical pain on a child, especially in such a cruel fashion, sickens me.
But if the guy isn't taking your son's class, I'd say it's largely up to your son.

Tralalee · 13/03/2018 01:55

I've just read this thread after the football one.

One very stupid footballer commits a disgusting spitting crime and that's it, all footballers are disgusting. A teacher CANES a teenager as part of his sporting education and that's all fine as well,thats what happens in taekwando

HmmHmmHmm

5plusMeAndHim · 13/03/2018 02:24

I think it is quite ironic to say a person cannot consent to being hit at a fighting club !

Whwhywhy · 13/03/2018 02:30

Well what’s for sure is a parent cannot consent to their child being caned. No more than they are allowed to assault them themselves.

And actually the sex chat earlier was pertinent. If a 17 year old cannot be deemed to consent to sex with a teacher/instructor due to power imbalance then how can they consent to assault.

MrsTerryPratchett · 13/03/2018 02:59

DH and I have both done martial arts and he is Canadian and has done TKD up to black belt, with Korean and white Canadian instructors. We have both had endurance type punishments. Like having to hold a weight up until told not to, or horse-riding stance for a minute or whatever. Even 'run around the gym until I tell you not to'. But never beating!

And certainly not children!

TIRFandProud · 13/03/2018 03:15

Seems that someone with no interest in the case is complaining and all those involved are fine with what happened including the police.

You feel sick? Horrified? Repulsed?

Grow up.

GnotherGnu · 13/03/2018 03:18

It's not in the least ironic, 5plus. Self-evidently, what you consent to in relation to a fighting club is physical contact within the rules of the sport. In the UK at least, parents can't consent to their child being cold-bloodedly hit as a punishment.

GnotherGnu · 13/03/2018 03:24

People claiming that everyone involved is fine with this seem to be going on what the lawyer and one police constable have said. I certainly wouldn't take the word of an individual PC as to what the law says; the fact that the police have decided not to prosecute doesn't necessarily mean that they're fine with it, but that for various reasons they don't think they'll get a conviction or don't want to spend further police time on the matter - particularly if it is being dealt with by the profession's governing body. As for the lawyer, he is paid to put the entire incident in the best light.

Mummyoflittledragon · 13/03/2018 04:07

Bizarre that parents are ok with this. I can only think that the instructor has instilled a culture, which although is alien, the parents have gone along with. I can only liken it a little to grooming for example. Being exposed to something for long enough, it becomes the norm.

I’m also perplexed about your reaction @NorthEndGal. Does that mean you will continue with classes at the school?

DunnoWhy · 13/03/2018 04:29

Such a weird story. I don't get the "consent" bit. Did he ask "I would like to cane you / your child, for being disrespectful, that's the only way, so either accept it or get out of my club" ! Really? How?
And the child / parents said "we do understand, yes fine, he deserves the punishment" ? ? ?
This is so weird. How does it happen? Sounds so twisted and sickening and also so far fetched, so unreal. I cannot imagine a conversation like this ever taking place and any parent ever agreeing their child being "punished" in that manner. Instructor being from the Far East or not is totally irrelevant, I couldn't imagine this conversation happening in a club in Canada I would think! In Far East, maybe. Canada, not so.

If it's true, it's sick from every angle. Take your child from that place.

Also it might be a lie, spread by a rival or enemy of the instructor, hence no further action being taken by the authorities, but if that's the case, still there is a bad smell, too many disturbing details. I would take my child from there.

Whatever the details are, there must be some sort of wrongdoing, otherwise the instructor would not have been suspended from teaching. I understand he doesn't teach anymore so, why is that? No smoke without fire. Even if he was later on acquitted or whatever, there seems to be enough wrongdoings to warrant him to be taken away from teaching. So it's bad enough.

The very first thing i would do now, is to find out what other parents know about it, ie whether they can verify if any of these allegations really occurred. If it appeared in the local papers, surely the other parents must have witnessed something / got involved with it. At the same time you should also ask your child's instructors about it and see what they say and how they say it. You have every right to ask about it. They should understand your concerns and should be able to reassure you. No need to be polite about it.

If the corporal punishment really happened, then yes definitely take your child from there, no doubt about it. If other parents and instructors haven't witnessed it and don't know anything about it so in other words, the whole saga was a lie spread by a rival, then you can have a clear conscience and a happy heart to keep him in that club. Having said that, change is good so i would probably change clubs anyway.

Changing clubs is good because your child will experience a different club, different instructors, different teaching styles, a different culture, so it'll enrich him and give him adaptability which is good. You don't have to stay loyal to the same club forever, change is really good. If you don't like the new club, you can always go back to the old one later on, provided that the allegations were unfounded in the first place.

LolitaLempicka · 13/03/2018 04:55

It makes you sick, but you already paid. Okaaaay. Why post a thread? Weird.

BedtimeTea · 13/03/2018 04:57

My child would have been withdrawn immediately, and I would tell my child the reason why.

schrodingerstwat · 13/03/2018 05:28

@NewYearNewMe18

To be pernickety, this is part of taekwondo discipline. You should know that before you sign your child up.

Errr...not to be pernickety, but according to the taekwondo governing body quoted in the news article, it's the polar opposite of taekwondo discipline!!!

"A taekwondo grand master has betrayed everything the martial art stands for by caning a 17-year-old student, says the head of the Nova Scotia governing body. “There are a number of us who are deeply outraged and offended by that action because it does go against everything that we teach,”

schrodingerstwat · 13/03/2018 05:30

OP, I think it's brutal and horrific, and I don't believe a child CAN consent to being abused.

What you do from here depends on how your son feels though.

wheekwheekpiggiefeet · 13/03/2018 06:17

NotallTims

He is 17, so I doubt he is being physically punished at home and if he is he is big enough to defend himself or move out of the home. Most teenagers would be very vocal about not taking any form of physical chastisement. However, my concern would be about this coach because there could be young children in that class who would be more easily intimidated and may feal abused or humiliated.

wheekwheekpiggiefeet · 13/03/2018 06:20

NotallTims My father often disciplined me in a way I did not like much even in my teens. He would yell and scream at me and call me names. When I was being a brat about his disciipline once he turned round to me and screamed in my face "Well, if you don't like it, leave home. " Of course, I could have. I was over 16 by then. And so I did. My sympathies would be with younger children who might be negatively affected by the coach's behaviour though.

wheekwheekpiggiefeet · 13/03/2018 06:24

Whwhywhy I do not think it is the same as sexual assault though. Sexual abuse of a child means they have been groomed and brainwashed into accepting it and are too intimidated to say no. A 17 year old being whacked is unpleasant but am pretty sure the 17 year old is not feeling shamed or intimidated into silence. Most teenagers are very assertive.

Pengggwn · 13/03/2018 06:31

Lots of people assuming things about the dynamic in this family. Let's face it, we have no idea why he allowed himself to be caned, do we?

WellThisIsShit · 13/03/2018 06:40

Well if he’s not actually teaching right now then I’d wait to withdraw your son until you hear what the conclusions are of the TKD professional body. Then make a decision.

Btw this kind of situation is exactly where you’d find brainwashing and coercion due to loyalty and group belonging / leader worship etc... so the exact situation where a teenager would struggle to say no or even know how to get out of the situation.