Future MIL advice needed! AIBU?? Please help!

[miyajima2018]

Please excuse the long post but to explain the situation…
I’m not a Mum yet but have found Mumset a source of incredibly supportive advice in the past so hope it’s okay to ask again! I am looking for advice about my relationship with my future MIL.

My fiancé (DP) and I have been together for 3 years (living together for 2) and are getting married at the end of this year. He’s 27 and his Mum (MIL) is 52 with 6 children - DP being the eldest down to a 11 yo. Apart from DP all her children still live at home and the three eldest (18, 22 & 25) never left home to go to university. MIL was sadly divorced a few years ago having spent her whole life as a SAHM raising the kids. Her whole life is her kids and she doesn’t do anything other than look after them. She has raised them in quite a sheltered way, rarely going out or leaving the small rural town they live in, and they never watch the news or have any outside influences such as friends coming round. One of the eldest children has what I would describe as agoraphobia and rarely leaves the house or even gets dressed or leaves her bedroom. My DP somehow turned out very different from the rest of his siblings and from a young age was quite ambitious and independent. He left home to go to university a few hours away and completed postgraduate training before getting a job in London (a few hours away from MIL) which is where we met. He loves his Mum very much but enjoys what I would consider to be a healthy “normal” independent life of his own. He speaks to her from time to time and they text a lot during the week, but we/he only visits her at her home every few months.

The situation is that over recent months MIL has become increasingly clingy and emotional with my fiancé. She has been upset and says he has forgotten her and constantly asks when he is coming home. Examples of her behavior are as follows: Whilst DP was at Uni she got into the habit of giving him a wake up call every morning (yes this is a habit DP regrets encouraging), and she has been asking why he doesn’t want her to keep doing this now to help him get to work in the mornings! She said it must be because she doesn’t need her anymore now he has me.

MIL got really upset and cried when he told her that our wedding will not be in a church (we are not religious) even though MIL never even went to church herself apart from on Xmas day. She also cried when she found out that my parents are paying for our wedding, and has also been upset about various small non-traditional choices we’ve made about the day. I have felt quite stressed about the wedding because of MIL’s feelings and would have loved to just elope, but my DP says she spent their whole childhood telling the kids that one of the worst things they could ever do would be to get married without telling her.

Last Spring she announced that she had booked and paid for three nights in a local hotel so that we could stay local to her for Christmas, even though DP and I had not yet discussed what we were doing for Christmas. It never occurred to her that we might need to visit my family too or split our time. I feel like she thinks we will forever be going back to her house every Christmas and doesn’t seem to think that anything will ever change. On Mothers’ Day she suggested that DP and I might like to visit our own parents separately as we did that one year (but this was when we were first dating and we hadn’t introduced each other to our parents yet)! I think it is normal for couples who are going to be married to attend family gatherings together and not go back to their own family homes separately. AIBU??

We are buying a flat and she has been advising DP to move to various posh areas which are super expensive and we can’t afford, because she is worried about the safety of the area. When we invited her to our flat we went for a walk down the canal in Maida Vale (which is a lovely area) and she texted him afterwards to say we must never walk down the canal as it’s too dangerous!

My DP has always wanted a tattoo and last year we both got one together (very subtle and small). MIL was upset and cried when he told her, and said that she knew it would have been my idea (even though it was in fact DP’s!) It’s as if she still views him as a small boy rather than a grown man!
MIL also hates swearing which is obviously her choice, but she can’t accept that DP and I may swear at our home with each other (not excessively I might add, just what I would consider pretty average and we never swear in front of her or the siblings) and she has got upset about this.
The teenage children often ask when my fiancé is going to move back home, as if his life in London and with me is only temporary.

She has been a loving Mum and she is a sweet person so I don’t want to paint her out as a monster. I also believe the psychological aspect of this comes from losing her own parents at a young age and wanting to create a tight family unit for herself at all costs. She is also very traditional which my fiancé and I are not and so I accept there will always be differences in lifestyle and opinions. But I can’t help but be worried about how this will all play out especially if we start a family – I don’t want to spend out whole lives feeling pressured and emotionally manipulated about our choices. The pressure is exacerbated by the fact that unusually none of DP’s siblings have moved out or even have partners, so we are setting the precedent! If there was another SIL or BIL in the equation might make me feel less alone. My DP is supportive and thinks she is being OTT but neither of us know how to handle it.

It would be great to know if anyone has any opinions.

Thank you if you have read this!! XX

I think that your husband should be trying to help his adult siblings become independant. Your mil certainly won't.

The only bit where I think YAB slightly U is with the mother's day thing. Surely you would rather spend mother's day with your respective mothers, and it would be nice for them to get more time with their own child? I think that is normal of couples without children. Other than that she sounds very hard work and I massively sympathise!

Take it from someone 6 years into this shit. Emigrate.

Definitely restrict how much information you give her about your life: it's none of her business anyway but both SIL and I have been open to our MIL in the past and lived to regret it. I'm very careful with what I say now (especially in regards to DS) as my MIL latches onto things and we never hear the end of it. She was utterly appalled that we co-sleep and by baby-led weaning. Also equally appalled that my SIL occasionally gave her baby jar food!

Good luck OP.

I really couldn't put up with someone who constantly uses tears to try to manipulate people. I hope your DP makes it very clear to her that he sees through them. In his situation, I'd be inclined to tell her when she starts that he can't discuss matters with her when she automatically reaches for tears every time things aren't going her way, and put the phone down.

Oh my goodness. It sounds as if has a serious MH condition, visited on her children. Your dp has been incredibly strong willed to get out from his mothers grasp. I feel terribly sorry for his siblings. The woman is only a few years older than me, it’s frightening.

Just echoing what others have said, live a considerable distance away. Before you have children, decide how you are going to deal with her and stick to it. It doesn’t sound as if your parents can help much with any babies if they are elderly so you must be totally prepared to go it alone. And parenting can be very difficult for some, much easier for others. The only caveat about living a distance away is that visiting becomes overnight stays. I sometimes think it would be easier to live a shorter distance from my mother for example to avoid this.

As for going away at Christmas, I think I would get your dp to tell her sooner rather than later that you had a lovely time last year but to be clear she must not book a hotel as your plans are not decided.

She sounds needy and like she is struggling to let her eldest go and rather than turn her into this mil from hell, maybe U could have some compassion??? I’ve got young boys and hope I can gracefully let them go when they are older but I want to desperately still be in contact and hope I don’t have a daughter or partner in law that doesn’t respect me and the fact that my kids will always be my babies.

Maybe u both need to communicate with her more and set boundaries? Your df needs to be firm with what is acceptable and to say what u both have agreed is the best thing to do.

but you can only say so much when someone is crying down the phone and he doesn't want to be unkind

Yeah, I got stuck at this stage with my awful mother for years and years. My suspicion is that she knows exactly what effect the crying has and that if he stops responding to the crying, she'll bring out worse behaviour. Ditto if you have kids. Google covert narcissism - not to armchair diagnose your MIL, but I bet it will ring a bell.

It's not a coincidence that your DF is the eldest. I reckon whatever mental breakdown that caused fmil to become quite so batshit crazy may have happened when your DF was c5 years old, such that he develop a fairly normal psyche. The younger siblings have clearly been brought up in a very different way.

You need to 'start as you intend to continue'

Make it clear you will not spend every Christmas with her (but alternate with your family?)

Make it clear you will not separate for Mother's Day (one day you will have your own children and won't be spending by the day apart then)

Tread very carefully when you get pregnant, keep her at arms length, as this is when she'll really become a problem.

One thing struck me as strange in your OP, why does she know you swear at home when you say you don't swear in front of her.

I think your DF needs to stop telling her too many details about your life, giving her the 'inside scoop' on every move you make is encouraging her to worry & judge.

Thanks all. Bonnyshide the swearing thing came up when we took her out for dinner one time. She said something like "you don't swear do you DS" and he said yes he did. He told her she seems to prioritise less important things (like not swearing, not having tattoos and not eloping) over and above important things (like being independent or being accepting of others) within her children. She just replies that she is "traditional".

MIL has asked to see the details of our new flat we have just bought (not exchanged contracts yet) and I worry she may start to pick holes. Not sure if it's best to wait until we've moved in and she can visit and see it decorated nicely etc, or whether to send her the agents particulars and get it over with. It sounds so trivial and shouldn't normally be a problem but I guess I am risk assessing everything for where there might be an issue for her to latch on to.

I agree with what everyone has said about her MH and as I've said I really believe she would benefit from therapy and that it all stems from losing her own parents at a younger age. I think she is basically really scared, and I hope I have shown compassion Snugglywithmycat17, but as I've said she is really shut off the whole idea of MH / therapy at all and I don't think she is anywhere near recognising she has problems.

Ultimately it is not up to us to take responsibility for another adult and there is only so much we can do to help. We have tried to help the other siblings - e.g. I am a lecturer and offered to support one with Uni applications and also attend a taster day where I work, but after numerous offers we gave up as he never followed through or replied to offers so clearly didn't want (or was too scared to accept) the help. We also offered to take the two youngest (15 & 12) out for the day in London and have them sleepover but MIL is scared of them getting the tube or catching a train without her. MIL thinks London is inherently dangerous.

Would it be worth your DH making it clear that he finds it offensive that she blames everything on you? In effect she is saying that he is a helpless being who is incapable of making life decisions for himself or of resisting your supposedly malign influence.

whether to send her the agents particulars and get it over with.

Fuck no! She’s liable to start harassing the agent, put in a fake bid to slow down the hand over or spend the next few weeks picking faults. Just wait until after.

MIL has asked to see the details of our new flat we have just bought (not exchanged contracts yet) and I worry she may start to pick holes.

Ah, not yet MIL, we'll show you around when we've finalised :)

Rinse and repeat.

schoolproblem12341 That is so sad, I can't imagine my DM ever wanting to be put first before her DC. She is happy when we are happy.
Same as I am with my own DD.

miyajima2018 You are going to have to do the cheery smile and change the subject when she is picking holes or making suggestions.
Keep information low key and general, so there is nothing to debate.
Start as you mean to go on with boundaries.

Definitely no to sending particulars.

Your updates are awful. She's extremely abusive to her children. It's like something out of a grim psychological horror, on a very light scale. She is manipulating them into not becoming adults. She is warping them, permanently.

I would take a harder line I think, as this isn't a simple case of a fluffy old mum finding it hard that her son has grown up and is interfering a bit. She is not a good influence, at all - she is hugely malign to her other children, she would be to your DP if he would let her, and she will try to be the same with your children, unless you draw very strong boundaries.

'We don't really feel comfortable discussing our finances all the time MIL/Mum, we are adults. I'm sure you don't ask xx/Aunty Gwen/the postman who paid for their holiday!'

'Mum I am going to put the phone down now to give you a chance to calm down. We cannot discuss anything as adults if you are going to react like this. Let's speak later.'

Her treatment of the 12 and 15 year olds is hugely worrying really. Is there any way you can speak to their school?

She said it must be because she doesn’t need her anymore now he has me.

Sorry but this is true, you are getting married. The bible may not be your thing but....
"Genesis 2:24: Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh."

Don't ever move closer to her, the only saving grace is that you live a good distance away.

She is well over the top and he needs to set down firm boundaries. The excessive phone calls and demands to visit need to stop, you are his immediate family now and your time together comes first and must be respected. He needs to make this perfectly clear.

I think your DP would benefit from therapy. He’s very strong willed to have gotten this far, but needs to learn to overcome the years of obligation and guilt around his mother. That could take some time.

She is being very controlling. You cant change her behaviour though nor should you try. Instead establish firm boundries. If she says that she has booked you to come at Christmas 'thank you for thinking of us but we wish you had checked first. We dont know what our plans are yet and wont until closer to the time.'

Stay united with your dp and just keep boundries and space. Cut the calls and keep them breezy.

She is fighting her role changing in any of her children's lives, which means fighting them changing or having independent relationships or lives she doesn't make decisions in and have control over.

The crying - well either she's permanently got major issues of distress, in which case she needs encouragement to go to counselling to help her cope emotionally with her role as a mother and her day to day life changing, or she's using it quite intentionally to guilt and control her son because it works. Sometimes even acting out the drama meets the need.

Really, work on this now and be very sure you and dp are on the same page, and committed to working through this separation because once you have a child this is likely to escalate hugely.

She will most likely be offended by any suggestion of counselling (even though she does need it) so I wouldn't bother.

All you can do is focus on pleasing yourselves instead of her- people like her CAN never be pleased and you are setting yourself up for a miserable life by trying to do so

Snuggly - I've got two grown up sons. They will always be my 'babies' (along with their sisters), but I can't treat them as such, they are grown men with lives that are nothing to do with me. I'm flattered if they choose to give me information on their life, but I don't insist on it, any more than I would ask my co-workers about their house purchases or wedding days.

This could be my MIL. She also lost her parents as a child and seems to crave 'family.' She was also incredulous for example, that we would not be spending every Xmas day or public holiday together. SIL lives next door and fulfills her needs and wants in return for free childcare on tap. We live an hour away and don't answer the phone as often as we used to.

What a nightmare. She's very manipulative, especially when she turns on the waterworks. In future, whenever she does this, simply and unemotionally state "obviously you're not up for discussing this. Let me know if there's a better time when you're calmer", and then hang up, leave the room, walk away.

Don't, whatever you do, give her any information about the flat purchase.

Thanks everyone. We have not sent her any of the property details yet and following everyone's suggestions on here my DP and I are going to sit down together at the weekend when we have time and come up with a plan of action / general boundaries for the future that we agree together.

My suggestion is going to be a white lie- that we say the estate agents details have been taken off Rightmove because it's under offer so there's nothing we can show her...

Re the wedding I will have a think about something we could run past her or 'seek her advice' about to help her feel a bit involved, but I am stumped so far as there's nothing I want her advice about as her taste is way traditional! FFS!