To not understand why fur and veal are so much worse than leather and beef?

[Coconuthusk]

This is a genuine question.
This isn't about whether we should all be vegan, it is a question for those who eat meat. Please be respectful. X
I genuingely don't understand why leather is acceptable and fur generally isn't. Animals bred abroad for leather can have pretty awful lives too.
Similarly, fois gras is pretty miserable for geese, eggs can cause real misery (not so much in the UK now thankfully), and obtaining feathers can be horrific so why is veal considered so much worse by some?
For the record, I eat meat and wear leather although I do understand why people choose to be vegetarian and vegan.

I don't know the answer to this, but following as there's much more knowledgable posters on here, and I'd be interested to know the answer too.

The only reason I can think of is because people are hypocrites.

I heard a stand up comedian saying that no one has a problem with leather as the bikers (like Hells Angels) wear leather

I think the veal thing comes from pictures of cute calves being crammed into horrible lorries for inhumane transportation. I don't think UK slaughtered veal has quite the same moral issues.

I think leather is a byproduct of the beef injury so not using leather would be wasteful, whereas fur the only thing that furry animals are killed for? I could be wrong on that one.

I suspect people aren't aware. There have been big campaigns about fur and veal - much less so for feathers.

For the fur one I'd imagine it's partly the way the animals were reared and kept and possibly skinned alive (not sure if it's true). The meat isn't eaten and there are plenty of alternatives for clothing.

Leather is a byproduct of beef, so makes good sense to use it if you want to eat the meat. Generally in this country beef cows are kept in good pasture and treated well.

Ethically I agree - it's hard to see a difference.

Practically - calves and furry animals are cute; grown cows aren't. So they don't incite the same feelings when pictured in posters etc.

Plus furry animals are bred and kept just to be killed for their pelts whereas leather is a byproduct of what people really want: meat. Possibly also a snob factor about fur and veal, being a bit pricier, which leather and meat don't have?

I think it’s down to how young or cute looking the animal is. Every time “I’m a celebrity get me out of here” rolls round I will say something about how it’s cruel to animals and insects, being trapped in a box with a frightened human, probably being squashed and trampled to death, or a spider being held in someone’s mouth, or a load of rats or mice or snakes being released onto a kicking and screaming person, but I’m always told to get a grip. I’m sure the same people telling me this would be horrified if a person was in a box where a load of kittens and puppies were unleashed onto them and the person reacted by kicking and punching out at the kittens and puppies

• leather and beef, slrdy

The issue with veal is that (at least traditionally) calves are kept inside small dark crates all the time until they are ready for slaughter - this is what keeps the meat pale and tender. It's an extremely cruel way of rearing meat.

The issue with fur is - as someone mentioned - that it is sometimes removed whilst the animals are still alive. If it isn't, I don't see that it's any more unethical than killing animals for leather or meat.

The veal thing is out of date.

If you drink milk male calves are a by product of the production. If they aren’t grown to be eaten as veal they’re just slaughtered.

Don't animals have to be skinned alive for the fur? And I think in some countries the veal is reared in horrible conditions where the calves are tied down so they can't build muscle mass etc. Thankfully in the uk there are laws in place to protect farm animals.

There’s more demand for leather than beef so leather is not a by-product really.

And meant to say, veal crates are illegal now in the UK and EU.

Fur - I understand because we don't tend to eat the animals who produce fur - other than rabbit, so it is not a by-product of the food industry but they are bred to produce a vanity item.

Leather is a by-product of the food industry and surely if you are going to kill an animal for food, it is best to use the whole animal - not waste any of it. (hooves/bones etc are also used for glues for those carpets underfoot!, tallow for the steel industry, other stuff goes in rubber tyres, in paints, in everything you look at around you)

veal - people harp back to the 70/80s when veal production was cruel - calves crated from birth, unable to move (movement toughens meat and produces red flesh.)

Nowadays British veal production is different and is a way for the dairy industry to use the unwanted male calves so they are not destroyed at birth. If only we could promote it more (like seems to be happening on MN lately!)

I didn't know animals were skinned alive for fur. That's awful. But no worse than feathers surely?

I didn't think that most leather was a by-product though?

Good luck skinning anything alive - fresh rabbit stew here last night following humane killing and the things are hard enough to skin when dead.

Sounds like a blogger lie. UK veal is humanely reared. Don't eat it from anywhere else, including the EU.

The veal thing comes from the use of veal crates in days past- the calves were not allowed exposure to sunlight or grass, so they did not use their muscles, as it was believed this kept the meat pale. So people boycotted veal because of this practice. The UK outlawed veal crates years ago

Now in the UK lots of male calves in the dairy industry are killed young, but because there is still a "veal is cruel" mentality their meat goes to waste much of the time. I am happy to eat veal, as long as it is produced in the UK.

Leather is a by product of the meat industry, so makes sense to use that part of the animal too. Fur is completely different- the animal is only being killed for its fur, and often the methods used are cruel.

I've stopped buying products that contain feather down. I've been a vegetarian for decades but it took me a while to have an epiphany about feathers. It does mean I struggle a bit to find really warm and reasonably priced coats.

I wear leather shoes because I have very difficult feet and I need my shoes to last. I'd prefer not to, tbh.

So UK veal is fine and no different to any other meat.
Thank you for explaining that.

The cute and cuddly factor!

I didn't think that most leather was a by-product though

Yes MOST leather is a by-product. Most leather comes from cows bred specifically for beef or dairy production.

I think the skinning alive for fur is mostly in China, at least according to the news reports I've seen over the years. It's denied by the fur industry, but some papers claim to have videos - not that I could watch them!

Aneldetley lady - have you looked at wool? I've seen wool filled coats.
But then again, wool can be a mine field too.